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Speaker 1 (00:00:00) - Welcome to Uncopyable women in Sales. If you're looking for actionable insights in real world tools to turbocharge your sales starting tomorrow, well, you're in the right place. Your host, Kay Miller, earned the affectionate nickname Muffler Mama when she sold more automotive mufflers than anyone else in the world. In this podcast, Kay will talk to another superstar women in sales, as they reveal un copyable strategies you can use to rack up more leads, snag dream clients, and take your sales numbers through the roof. Stay tuned and get ready to make more sales. And how about this more money?
Speaker 2 (00:00:39) - My guest today is Erin McCann, and Erin started her career in hospitality sales and has spent her very interesting career leveraging those skills to excel in customer operations and startup leadership. Erin, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:00:58) - Thank you so much for having me, Kay. It's great to meet you and great to meet your audience.
Speaker 2 (00:01:03) - I first met you, of course, through your dad. And your father is Jack Hubbard. And he has a podcast called Jack Rants about Modern Bankers.
Speaker 2 (00:01:15) - Did I get that right?
Speaker 3 (00:01:16) - It's I think it's Jack rants for modern bankers. But fill in your own verb.
Speaker 2 (00:01:21) - Write the basic part which which is really interesting. And he invited me on his podcast. He was so gracious to me. He was a great interviewer. He purchased my book and copyable sales secrets, and he really plugged the book. So of course, you know, I loved that. He's my favorite person now., one thing I noticed when I met Jack is that he had some interesting pictures in the background, and I see that you also have some very interesting pictures in the background. And,, he had a story about his picture. What's the story about your pictures?
Speaker 3 (00:02:00) - Yeah, my my mom probably gave us both the inspiration to do really wonderful background that are office rather than blurring. I like to show it off because it always is a conversation starter. So for me, you know, I'm in people operations where if I'm interviewing someone or if I'm getting interviewed, it's always a nice way to start a conversation.
Speaker 3 (00:02:19) - So for folks who are in sales, your background is really important., to little pro-tip just think about how you're presenting yourself on camera. We're all living on zoom still these days, even post-pandemic. So I'll the to answer your question, my mom started to collect what we call stranger art, and it's these portraits of folks who we don't know. My dad has one that the banker. We think we put a lot of story behind who we think these people are in the wild. The center here is the first one that I collected when I moved to our new house here outside Chicago., and she very much reminds me of my grandmother, who was a businesswoman herself. She was an accountant. She worked,, throughout her time raising a family., so it was I think that's a real inspiration, especially,, rare for folks who at that time were mothers raising a family. It also had their own full time jobs. And she just reminded me of a portrait that could have been in my grandmother back in the day, getting ready to go to the office.
Speaker 3 (00:03:18) - And she loved the color pink, and she always wore pearls., so she started the collection and that around it I collected just interesting pictures of women. Some are famous copies, some are originals, and my husband did one for me. He's an artist. And the one behind me here is our dog, Winston. As a woman.
Speaker 2 (00:03:38) - Well, it's a.
Speaker 3 (00:03:38) - Dog, but.
Speaker 2 (00:03:39) - It is very interesting. Of course, most people are listening to the podcast, but hey, if you're listening, you might want to check in on the video because it is a very cool, interesting background. And of course, as salespeople, we should definitely be getting every cue from who we're talking to. And so that's why I immediately noticed and commented on your dad's background, and of course, also looked at your background. So,, that's a just a reminder to salespeople that just, you know, I have a phrase think like Sherlock. You're always looking for interesting things in someone's environment, their body language, the way they talk, whether they're smiling and having fun.
Speaker 2 (00:04:21) - And so it's just a good reminder to me to always focus on on that, to learn something about the person. And I think that's a fascinating story. And your grandmother was definitely a leader, and that is a very awesome story. So that's,, fun to learn about. So as I mentioned in the bio, you have had quite the varied career path. So I'd like to start out and just ask you to give us a little overview of where you started and how that's gotten you to where you are now. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:04:57) - , so what I, I actually went to school and thought I would do wedding and event planning and started out in college, kind of working in summers during wedding planning, and took a couple jobs after school. That led me and then in that direction. But very early in my career, I realized that while I did love that space where I was really excelling at was selling, and that might be an event or an experience, it might be. At some point in my career, I sold corporate accounts for a bunch of different hotel groups, but it was always about focusing on the customer and building that very specific experience that we were trying to sell, whether that be a wedding, whether that be a meeting space, whether it be, you know, opening a new location in a Chicago area, they needed a place to stay.
Speaker 3 (00:05:41) - How do we talk about those things? So it landed in their life., so I spent about eight and ten years in sales specific roles and then decided to kind of take a leap. And I actually worked for my dad's company for about three years., they Saint Mary Hubbard still exists today. They have a sales training firm that specific to finding. So they would teach bankers how to sell and how to connect to people. Very similar kind of leeway. It doesn't matter if you're selling banking or if you're selling a wedding, you're still trying to connect to people and think through how you can be a better partner to them and create these wonderful experiences. So the opportunity to partner with a lot of bankers and to training enablement. I also did their marketing. So built out a conference series where we would bring folks in from all over the country and have speakers, and folks would get to learn with each other and connect with each other and just kind of have some real conversations about what it meant to be in banking at that time.
Speaker 3 (00:06:40) - And so I spent three years with my dad's company before I was pushed out of the nest and met somebody at a conference who was starting an organizational design firm. They needed someone to to start doing customer experience. So that kind of started me on my trajectory, really working in startups specifically to customer success or customer operations roles., and I spent a few years there before pivoting again and moving into people operations leadership. And for the past ten years, I've been heads of people for 3D, soon to be for technology based startups all over the country. Was in New York, went fully remote and had a really interesting transition. But I would say the through line of all of this has been, if you can have good conversations with people, you're really selling. And so part of that is how do you sell yourself? So for me, I use my sales background every day when I've been talking to candidates and selling the companies where I work or selling managers, and why it's important to do an initiative that I think is critical to the business or selling my senior leadership team.
Speaker 3 (00:07:42) - I'm focusing in a different direction. So it's really influence is how I like to think about. It has really been a throughline throughout my career.
Speaker 2 (00:07:53) - It's interesting that you started out in thinking that you'd be in a totally different career, and that is a common theme among the women that I have been interviewing. So, you know, sometimes when we're when we're young, we don't know exactly what we're going to do. But it sounds like you quickly discovered that sales was something that was a great fit. And of course, number one, we're always selling ourselves. We're we're selling ourself along with a product or a service or an idea or a vision. So sales is part of everything. And so it sounds like it served you very well as a basis for everything that you've done and having the conversation and getting to know people. My view of sales is that when your customer has a problem or a need, that they may or may not realize that they have, that if you can really you use the word partner.
Speaker 2 (00:08:51) - And I love that, that you can partner with them and help them achieve what is going to benefit them, then, you know, selling has gotten such a bad rep, the used car salesman, everybody thinks about that. But the best salespeople do what you are talking about getting to know the customer and then serving them as best you can. It's a win win for everyone. And it sounds like, again, that you've been very successful doing that. So you've kind of answered this, but how would you say a sales background makes you a better people operations leader?
Speaker 3 (00:09:29) - Yeah, I mean, I think if I could tell early graduates or really anyone in their career starting out, I think there's a few roles that everyone should have to do in their life, and one is being becoming a salesperson. I think it teaches us a lot of skills, presentation skills. How do we present ourselves to the team we're working with? For me, that's how my presenting the company to external candidates. How am I presenting myself to my network? How am I presenting myself to a company when I have to deliver difficult news? And that's a really important skill set that I think every salesperson needs to have, which is how do I take information and presented it in a way that's compelling?, folks have told me that I am a very direct speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:10:11) - I guess I didn't ever realize it, but I've gotten that feedback a lot recently as I'm going through my own interview process, which makes me feel like there are a lot of folks out there who aren't great at communicating effectively. And so how do we get how do we get there? I certainly wasn't this effective 15 or 20 years ago when I was starting out. But you practice and you try things and you fail., and I can harken back to my early sales career. I was my dad very much was very excited that I was in sales. You can imagine, you know, Apple doesn't fall for the trade., and he would give me a lot of tools in my toolkit on how to do prospecting. And this was before we had, you know, technical tools to help us. It was yes, we had email, but a lot of it was still smiling and dialing and literally having to smile on the phone, even though most of the folks you get on the other end are hanging up on you.
Speaker 3 (00:11:01) - But it's really taking those skills and translating it to effective communication, right? Like, I think that's a really important thing that we can all enter it in., yeah. I just I think there's there's definitely something that if I look back at my early career, I wasn't great at it, but every time I got somebody to hang up on me, I tried something different the next time. So it's failing fast and figuring out what's not working and creating partnerships within your organization, like through the marketing team, sales operations. We talked a little bit about sales enablement,, learning and development. There are so many people who can help you upon that skill, and I think that been impactful to my people operations career. But also when I was doing customer operations and customer success and when I was a sales professional.
Speaker 2 (00:11:46) - I like the fact that you said delivering bad news, something that you mentioned. And that is really something that I talk about that builds trust because everyone likes to call and deliver great news, but not so much on the bad news, right? But that is part of that relationship.
Speaker 2 (00:12:05) - And building the trust so that that you can solidify that, that relationship., you touched on sales enablement, and I'd like to get your perspective on that.
Speaker 3 (00:12:19) - Yeah. I mean, it's interesting like this is it's a fairly new function, I'd say. And it kind of comes at the triangle of learning and development and sales operations, marketing, sales. So I guess it's more of like a diamond shape., and it's a tool and not every organization has it. You're very small technology startups, for example. I was never fortunate enough to have a full sales enablement team at the the startups where I worked. But some of your larger firms really lean into this function to help sales folks do their jobs better. That's essentially their role. And whether that is finding tools like email marketing tools that can help sales folks efficiently send out messages, which has its upsides and its downsides, of course., you do. Utilizing AI sales enablement can help your sales team figure out the right way to lean into new tools to.
Speaker 3 (00:13:09) - But also it might be collateral or, you know, an ROI calculator. And if you have in your organizations or are fortunate enough to have that sales enablement function, I think, again, it's such a it's so important to see them as a partner. One area where I see, especially on the tech side, sales folks don't really understand that that partnership needs to exist across the organization. Revenue fuels every company, right? Like we're all in this to make money. We're all in this to grow organizations., but we can't do it alone. We aren't out solo entrepreneurs within that organization. Everyone is there to support. And I think if the folks on the podcast have that function by that person.
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Speaker 2 (00:14:14) - Interesting that you bring that up because I just delivered a webinar for a company and it was called the customer experience is the marketing. Everything walks the talk. And so they were having this experience where the salespeople would work really hard to go get new prospects, turn them into customers, and then they would just, like you said, they'd get handed off to somebody else in the organization. And the experience was not consistent. And so, you know, one bad experience could really ruin all the things that you as a salesperson have worked for., and I have actually had an example. We had just been to Hawaii, and I won't go into the whole story, but we had so many great experiences along the way with this company. We took a kayak and snorkel tour. We were so jazzed. And then the next day we went back to this little store that they had and they totally ignored us. So so that was a, you know, one really specific example of how everything does need to work together.
Speaker 2 (00:15:21) - And the sales enablement sounds like it's really integrating all these different departments so that it strengthens everyone's ability. But especially since we're focused on sales,, it helps the salesperson. So,, that's a great, great point. Do you have anything specific that you would tell a new salesperson that wanted to get into startups?
Speaker 5 (00:15:45) - .
Speaker 3 (00:15:46) - , a lot of folks ask this question, especially when I go through candidate process when I'm hiring for county executives., and with the firms where I've worked, and I think that there are a few things that folks can do that kind of can really make their resumé appealing when they're applying for roles. So if you're looking to switch careers, maybe you're in finance, banking and you're looking to go into more of fintech or finance tech., I think there's a few ways that you can really stand out on your resume, but also do some work on your own education to make your resume more attractive. So,, first, I think really leaning into the tools that that company is advertising on their job descriptions.
Speaker 3 (00:16:25) - A lot of times within your job descriptions, you'll see things like how Salesforce or HubSpot experience got experience,, CRM., while as a salesperson, we know that sometimes they'll have this thing you want to do is put that information into the CRM. It's so critical that you do so that you can get that data back and report it up to your sales manager, so that they can use that data to make more informed decisions on where money is going. So if you don't have a CRM in your current organization or if the company really want to work for it has a different CRM, there are ways you can take certifications on those platforms without having to be within the organization itself., I personally did this. I was recently interviewing for a role that I didn't have a certain tool that some of the job descriptions asked for, so I went and got a certification so I could put it on my resume, which will at least get you hopefully in front of the hiring team. And then you can talk through your how your experience is relevant.
Speaker 3 (00:17:19) - To that company., and I would familiar familiarize yourself with how tech startups sell. If that's an area you want to go., while a lot of the sale sales can be the same, no matter, regardless of industry,, whether you're selling pharmaceuticals or you're selling into finance or you're selling into hotels, the process is really about making connections. But sometimes there's a real there is a difference between working to text or and other organizations or for what is you don't have a lot of resources. So how comfortable are you with going in and building your own sales playbook, helping marketing build collateral, talking to customers without a big demo behind you, or a big company name behind you. Really getting comfortable with pitching. That's something that I think is a big difference, is there are million startups out there in tech startups, and that means that folks probably haven't heard of the company where you're going to work. So a lot of your time will be explaining the product. The differentiators between your product and work, well established company and getting comfortable prospecting.
Speaker 3 (00:18:23) - So how are you holding your skills in your current role to do that? How are you showcasing your ability to be agile and work fast without a lot of resources, and really leaning into those things on your resume and share examples where you have had nothing and you've created a big sale for the company.
Speaker 2 (00:18:42) - I agree with all of that, and I want to touch on the CRM part, which is just one of the many components that you just talked about. But one of the big problems salespeople have is not following up. And I think that a lot of that is because of organization or should I say disorganization. Would you agree?
Speaker 3 (00:19:03) - , yeah. I mean, I definitely agree, and I think your question might be, how do you leverage that CRM? And I think there are so many tools out there to help us,, whether if you have a CRM like those two colors or getting a thing pre-configured, but even just using Google Reminders and Boomerang in your email can make such a difference. Balls dropping early in the sales process is just going to set your.
Speaker 3 (00:19:27) - It's going to show the company that you're talking to you, that that's how you, as that company that you're selling interact with customers so you can really lose a sale very quickly that way.
Speaker 2 (00:19:37) - Right. And we use a CRM called copper, and it's not very expensive. I think it's $29 a month. So. If I were a salesperson and I was working for a company, I, you know, I would pay for my own CRM. And I love copper because it tracks every single email that I send. So you really you don't have to pay attention to that. Once you put the LinkedIn profile, a few details in there, it'll pull all that information. So you pretty much have your contact all filled out, and it makes it very easy to create tasks and reminders to follow up. So yes, I think a CRM is definitely critical to salespeople, every salesperson and and maybe it seems like a small or simple part of the process, but it could just have a huge impact., I think really two big problems that salespeople have.
Speaker 2 (00:20:34) - They talk too much,, and they are not organized. And I heard it interesting story recently about from a sales trainer, and he was training a group of people and there was someone new in the back of the room, and he kind of raised his hand and said, you know what? I have the gift of gab. And my mom says, I can sell anything to anyone. And the sales trainer said, okay, that's the opposite of what you need to do. And a lot of extroverted people are drawn to sales. But it is so much about listening and probing and going deeper. You know, as I mentioned, I have a philosophy I called Think Like Sherlock. So it's your listening to to hear what the customer not just says, but what they mean. So., let's talk about why you feel it's important to have more women in sales.
Speaker 3 (00:21:31) - Yeah. I mean, I was fortunate to work with some great female sales folks when I was in on the hotel side., but I think unfortunately, in my space where I'm seeing is there 1 or 2 folks on the sales team who are female on your small excuse me and your small sales organization, but I think a lot of women are intimidated by applying for an account executive role, or they go through the interview process and they're one of one women in the room.
Speaker 3 (00:21:59) - And that can be intimidating. When you're going into an organization, you know that you're going to have to meet with folks regularly. And if it's all men and you're the only woman, how will that feel to you?, will you be included in all of the jokes and the emails, or will they feel sensitive about you being there? And so I think the more women we can get into the room, the more equitable that experience is for all of us., and I also think that because women are going into this field as often as men, they miss out on that opportunity to have this training, on how to have conversations. And again, back to those presentation skills, which is so crucial for leadership., and that can really translate into the ability to grow. And as a leader in companies, in my opinion, sales is a really great training ground to get some of those basic skills communication, following up, staying on top of your emails, writing really good content, networking on LinkedIn and all of that serves you so well as you grow up in your career.
Speaker 3 (00:22:54) - And I think if more women can take that leap and try it first, you'll stand out. So think less about being the only one, and think more about how you're going to be able to leverage your individuality and stand out to the customers that you're talking to., as part of something my my role, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion is really important for a lot of different reasons., to me, and I would say that part of the thing that I talk about with all of our leaders is that diversity within an organization is important because it helps you match the customer experience to. Right. So if more women are in sales, that means that the folks they're selling to can have someone they can connect with very quickly. And as organizations, if we have more women in sales, that means that we have a greater likelihood of connecting to our customers, where 50% may be women. So thinking about that as a real opportunity,, versus I'm going to be the only one, I'll be siloed.
Speaker 3 (00:23:50) - Leveraging your uniqueness in the in the process.
Speaker 2 (00:23:54) - And, you know, I talk about being in Copyable. When I started my career, I was one of, well, the first job I had, I was the only woman, the first woman they ever hired, that I went to an automotive muffler company and one of very few women, and I ended up being the number one salesperson, which I, you know, I was I got the nickname Muffler Mama, which I wasn't so thrilled about, but it has served me because it set me apart., I just read a book by Laurie Richardson called She Sells, and she really focuses on the kind of culture that a company needs to have to welcome women and retain women and some of the gender differences. I mean, women make great salespeople, and I hadn't thought of that point. I love your point that then you're matching the customer because, you know, your customers are diverse as well. So that is a really important point. So I really like that.
Speaker 2 (00:24:56) - , that and I, I had one more thing I was going to say and I can't remember what it was, but,, yeah, it really is important to have women on the sales force. And hey, your grandmother, she was a pioneer. She was a trailblazer. So that comes from your family., so we talked about some specifics because as I said, somebody mentioned that they love podcasts where they need to take notes. And you had some great specifics. And maybe,, if you have an example or a story, we only have about five minutes., but is there, you know, some, some closing thoughts that you can think of that address that.
Speaker 3 (00:25:38) - I would say for because I'm, you know, talked a lot about tech startups. And I think that there are a lot of folks who, in more traditional environments who are excited to break into that space because it does grow fast and you have a lot of opportunity at your fingertips. For folks who are interested in learning more about what it's like to work at a startup.
Speaker 3 (00:25:55) - , first Round review has a really great,, newsletter that they put out there, specific articles to what they call go to market or typically on the sales side. But you can also just read about what it means to be in leadership in, in tech startups, and how that might be different than working in a more established organization., so I have a really great newsletter., another tool that when we talked about networking that really flagged is I'm an advisor to a company called Clay., and what they do, and it helps really give specific ideas of how to connect with people. They take all of your social, all of the social information for folks in your network, including their LinkedIn and Instagram, and they can help curate ideas for like, what gift would I said to this person? How would I approach this person? So I think there's some really great tools out there to help you customize your experience that you're delivering to your customers., certainly leaning into a CRM, I think is a great idea.
Speaker 3 (00:26:49) - , you know, if I the people operation side of things, I always like to send a little. Thank you., and I know sales folks probably do this as well, and I get sold a lot of info. I get sold a lot in my role in the. The areas where I lean in are. Yes, it's great to get a little gift card or something, but ask me for my time, ask me for my opinion, and then follow up to your point earlier with a nice thank you note. Paperless post is great for this. They have a really great user experience. I also use sugar, which I just said some sugar wishes to folks who are references for me and my interview process, and it lets them pick out a candy or bottle of wine and it's so low lift. But to the person receiving it, it will make their day. So how can you leverage that, those kinds of tools to send follow ups in a unique way that will help you stand out, especially for the women on your podcast who are listening? We have that that ability to be so thoughtful.
Speaker 3 (00:27:48) - And I think that will set you apart from folks who, you know, send a $5 Starbucks gift card even if there's no Starbucks in the person's area. Right? Like, how many times do you do that? So, right, just a couple of ways that folks can maybe set themselves apart using some technology that's out there.
Speaker 2 (00:28:04) - Right. And you kind of breezed by a few different resources that weren't familiar to me. So I just want to point out to you as the listener, I will put those in the show notes, and on any platform there will be the show notes, some more information about Aaron, and like I said, some of those kind of went over my head., I don't know if you if your dad mentioned this, but we use a service called Send Out Cards. And after the interview that we did, I sent him a card and a two pack of brownies and he right away responded. He was so excited. And he wanted to know what that that service is, because actually with send out cards, you do everything online.
Speaker 2 (00:28:50) - You know, you put in your message. I actually put a picture of,, your dad and I think with Brynn on their podcast. And so it's super personalized. And he right away said, I need to know more about this program. And in that case, I'll just tell you the whole package was only $14.50. Thank you. Notes used to be more common. And so now that especially everything is online internet, I think something in the mail is just huge and very appreciated. So I've had a couple other women that I've interviewed that have said they write thank you notes, very meaningful, a great way to be unique and stand out. We have already run out of time, so I don't know if you have 1 or 2, probably just one closing thought and then we'll have to sign off. Do you have anything for the women listening?
Speaker 3 (00:29:43) - I would just say stay at it and really leaning into the fact that you're unique,, because there are fewer women in sales than men. Use that to your advantage.
Speaker 3 (00:29:53) - Listen more than you talk. My dad always says it's better to be interested than interesting. So find a really good way to get great questions in your toolkit and lean into your uniqueness.
Speaker 2 (00:30:05) - Aaron, this has been a fantastic interview. I appreciate it so much. So thank you for all this great information. I know the listeners are going to be taking notes, right. So thanks again for your time and thank you for being on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:30:22) - Thank you so much. Great to meet everyone.
Speaker 1 (00:30:24) - Thanks for listening to this episode of Unstoppable Women in Sales, your source for secrets you can use to make more sales. Check the show notes for links and contact information and if you enjoyed the podcast, please spread the word by subscribing, sharing and leaving a five star review. You can always learn more by going to UN Copyable sales competition last. Until next time, go out and supercharge your sales like a true unstoppable rockstar.