This transcript is AI generated, and not 100% accurate. (Shocking, I know.)
--------
Speaker 1 (00:00:00) - Welcome to Uncopyable women in Sales. If you're looking for actionable insights in real world tools to turbocharge your sales starting tomorrow, well, you're in the right place. Your host, Kay Miller, earned the affectionate nickname Muffler Mama when she sold more automotive mufflers than anyone else in the world. In this podcast, Kay will talk to another superstar women in sales as they reveal unstoppable strategies you can use to rack up more leads, snag dream clients, and take your sales numbers through the roof. Stay tuned and get ready to make more sales. And how about this more money?
Speaker 2 (00:00:40) - Today I am excited to talk with Heidi Solomon Orlick. Heidi is an award winning 35 year veteran in professional sales and the founder and CEO of Girls Who Sell. After a career in sales, she now serves as chief Revenue officer for The Dors Group. Powered by Keller Williams. Heidi is the inspiration, editor and author of the highly acclaimed book Heels to Deals - How Women Are Dominating in Business to Business Sales. Heidi, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:01:18) - Thank you Kay. I'm so grateful to be here. Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (00:01:22) - I'm very happy to have you on. As I said, I read your book Heals to Deals, which is a compilation of stories from other women which are fascinating. Also, some insights into your career, which I'd like to get into a little bit, but, what a great project. And maybe we can talk about how that that happened, but it's very inspiring and encouraging to hear from these amazing women who are also, I noticed, very diverse, which I love. So, Heidi, why don't you just tell us a little bit about your background?
Speaker 3 (00:01:56) - Yeah. So, you know, as you and I were talking about, as we were, prepping, I actually, was, started my career out of college, in advertising and marketing and direct marketing. I work for an ad agency, a bunch of different ad agencies, actually, in California. And, you know, if you know anything about the ad agency business, one, it's incredibly male dominated.
Speaker 3 (00:02:26) - It wasn't continues to be. And, two, it's very competitive. So they sort of, you know. You know, eat you up and chew you out and and burn you out. And so after being fast tracked for about ten years, I sort of burned out, to be honest. And I really had no idea what I was going to do with my career. my dad, who was my inspiration, he was an entrepreneur and master sales executive, had told me when I was young that I should not go into sales. At sales is for men. It's it's a man's sport, quote unquote. And, you know, even though I wanted to someday run his business, he was not going to have that. So sales was not an intentional career choice for me. But, like so many other women, in my, you know, early 30s, I fell into it and was given an opportunity to join and, enterprise sales organized Nation as vice president of sales. And that was the start of a 35 year career in business process outsourcing.
Speaker 3 (00:03:44) - And, yeah. And I was definitely the only woman in the room and frequently still, actually BPO industry similar to tech sales is is very male dominated. And so I really wanted to do something to empower young women and like they're doing with Stem position sales as a viable career alternative for women from diverse backgrounds, who want to achieve financial and economic independence.
Speaker 2 (00:04:18) - It sales is such a fantastic career, really. I was struck by how many of the women that were in your book just really recommend it. Consider a career in sales or, you know, women are great at sales and for various reasons. One thing that you you mentioned your dad and I know in the book you said he was a great storyteller. In fact, he came up with some great bedtime stories that really got you thinking about different situations and how you would react and respond. And that was a great training ground, I'm sure, for you, because you are in fact, a great storyteller. And besides the male dominated part, let's talk a little bit about how has that served you in your sales career?
Speaker 3 (00:05:06) - Well, he he was a brilliant storyteller.
Speaker 3 (00:05:10) - And when I was young he was on the road a lot. Right. So he, you know, he traveled quite a bit. But when he was home, he was a very dedicated, passionate father. And every night before I would go to bed, he would tell me stories about a family of the elephant called Mumbo Jumbo and Dumbo. And of course, Dumbo was the baby. And she was very precocious and always getting herself into trouble. And she, you know, he would make up these fabulous stories about this family that that had to overcome all of these obstacles. And we would co-create the stories together at night on, you know, okay, so this is the problem she found herself in. And so what are ways that she could potentially get out of this, you know, disastrous situation that she found herself in and how to see use of creative. Yeah. Like use of solutions to change the, you know, change the course. And and so it was it was really awesome.
Speaker 3 (00:06:22) - And you know, I didn't realize at the time that I was actually learning some core skills. And, you know, not just in sales, but life skills that could be utilized for the rest of my life. And how that's translated is, you know, I believe that that's really what sales is, is all about. We, you know, in Girls Who Sell Academy. And when I speak to a lot of young women, both college and high school age young women, I speak a lot about, Demystifying and and debunking some of the mess perceived myths of what sales actually is. And it's really in my mind anyway, about, serving. Right. And so that was a big part of the stories that my dad used to, tell tell me it was a lot about how do you get back and how do you serve others, which was a core value that was instilled in me at a very young age. But also it was about problem solving. And I do believe that the core of sales is about, you know, you know, trying to help clients solve their business challenges and come up with solutions that are going to be able to move the needle for them.
Speaker 3 (00:07:40) - So, yeah. So those stories and that my he told not only me but all three of my boys, which by the way, all three of them are in sales, probably no surprise. And my son just, published a children's book based on the stories that my dad told us when we were young. So the adventures of Mumbo jumbo and Dumb Dumbo. So that kind of makes me cry a little bit, because it really shows the legacy and the impact of the stories generation over generation.
Speaker 2 (00:08:14) - Yes, that is really awesome. And yes, touching. And you know, you do give a shout out to your dad. Not that he was really a discouraging you to follow your path, but it just wasn't. You know, women were not seen in sales like they are now. So I thought it was good. You said, you know nothing against my dad. It was just that time I like. Yeah. So good thing that times have changed even though you had three boys. But yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:08:42) - Communication. And you said serving in sales. So interesting that sales has such a bad rep because, you know, you think of the used car lot, right. And someone just trying to force something down your throat. And really the right kind of sales that works long term is when you get to know the customer. They have a problem, you have a solution. What's wrong with that? It's like you said, it's serving them and helping them in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 3 (00:09:11) - So and and it's actually why women are so good at sales. Not that men aren't. I'm not trying to put anybody into boxes. But, you know, I do believe that. And you mentioned this earlier, that women do have the innate skills to be successful at sales. And that's just not it's not just my opinion. Right. The the numbers and the data back that up. And I do believe that because women are, you know, they're relationship oriented. They're natural problem solvers. So. I do believe that we have the core skills to really, really take sales to the next level.
Speaker 2 (00:09:59) - It's interesting because I've, I think I'm on my 30th or so interview, and I've only had one person really reject the fact that there is a difference between men and women, which is interesting because, I mean, there are differences. Of course we're different. I mean, we just watched Caitlin Clark last night. Oh my God, these these women are so awesome at basketball. It's amazing. But if they were out playing men who are twice their size, pretty much no, they would not be able to compete. So there are differences. But, yes, I think some of them work in a positive way toward women as mothers and family managers for the most part. Although I'm going to give your husband props because he was a stay at home dad for quite a while. But our brains, yeah, good for him. Plus, he's a northern Italian cook. I'm so jealous.
Speaker 3 (00:10:56) - Yes, thank. Thankfully, because to be honest, Kay, he I think did a better job than I could have as a, as a stay at home mom.
Speaker 3 (00:11:05) - He had a more of the temperament. I mean, I was when I was home, I was home and I was focused and I was really involved in my, my children's lives. But, you know, he enabled me to actually excel in my career. And, you know, I was off traveling the world and entertaining clients and being the primary breadwinner. And, you know, he was doing diapers and laundries and, and PTO meetings and schlepping the kids to, you know, all of their sports and activities. And, and so, I give him props every single day because. I couldn't have done a better job. And I'll tell you when he did it. You know, our kids now are. My oldest is 29. I have a 27 and a and a 25 year old now. Three boys and. Men were not staying at home, right? It was, you.
Speaker 2 (00:12:06) - Know, that had to be unusual. I'm going to say you flipped the script before it got flipped.
Speaker 3 (00:12:11) - Before a flipped.
Speaker 3 (00:12:13) - Right. And but I do think that it had a very positive impact on our boys there. You know, they're definitely allies. Their advocate for diversity, equity and inclusion. They have the utmost respect for for women. And I think. You know, being a part of a reverse household, was really what was really different. In fact, sometimes they had to even defend it because it was strange, right? People just didn't understand it, and what we were doing. But it was it was it worked for us. I'm not saying that it would work for everyone, but it worked for us. And thank goodness he he can cook because I just I cannot cook, I'm terrible. And I do breakfast better than him. I actually do a pretty mean lox, eggs and onions or, you know, cheesy eggs. But other than that, when when I met him in the British West Indies and, there sounds like.
Speaker 2 (00:13:19) - Another story there.
Speaker 3 (00:13:21) - Oh it is. So I met him in the British West Indies.
Speaker 3 (00:13:23) - He was actually the executive chef, working for Club Med turquoise. And I went there on vacation on my own. I was living in Pennsylvania. I had been relocated there to, work as vice president of sales and was coming into Thanksgiving. And my mom actually said to me, I was 34 and unmarried, had a couple of engagements, false starts, but never had been married. And she was like, well, you know, you're going to spend Thanksgiving alone, you know, wanted to just book a trip to Club Med or something, kind of like, don't all 34 year old, you know, loser women, you know, do that. You can just yeah, I'm like, that's brilliant. So I, that was on a Tuesday. On a Friday it was on a plane and I met him there. And so we don't have time to go into the whole story of how it actually evolved into a. You know, the two of us getting married, and we're going on our 30 year wedding anniversary this year, and we're going to be renewing our vows.
Speaker 3 (00:14:35) - But when he moved back from Club Med to move in with me in Pennsylvania, the only thing that I had in my refrigerator was wine, Lean Cuisines and nail polish. And I found that.
Speaker 2 (00:14:53) - In your book, I'm like, why do you put nail polish on the fridge?
Speaker 3 (00:14:56) - Oh, no, because last longer does it. It's an old it does. So I have to try it. Oh my gosh. Nothing.
Speaker 2 (00:15:02) - You know, you can see I'm pretty low maintenance on it.
Speaker 3 (00:15:05) - Well, it's a trick my mom taught me, but. Yeah, so that was it. And he's been cooking ever since he was. He was mortified.
Speaker 1 (00:15:14) - Today's podcast is sponsored by the acclaimed book Unstoppable Sales Secrets How to Create an Unfair Advantage and Outsell Your Competition, by Kay Miller. If you want to make more sales, you need to read this book. We'll even get you started with a free download of the first two chapters. Go to UN Copyable sales com slash chapters to grab this offer right now.
Speaker 2 (00:15:40) - So let's cut a shift into what you have done in your career. Like you said, as often the only woman in the room. How have you leveraged your, you know, your thought process as a woman? Just, you know, give the listeners some of your hot tips so that we can.
Speaker 3 (00:15:58) - So, yeah, I've said, you know, quite a few times and I'll say it again and I'll scream it from the rooftops. is that the thing about being the only woman in the room is that you're the only woman in the room. So think about that. Right? So for me, early in my career, I felt as though I had to behave more like a man. In fact, there were book sales books that recommended that, that in order for women to be successful in sales, that, you had to act more like man. And, you know, early in the career and even still today, you know, things were, you know, deals were getting done on the golf course.
Speaker 3 (00:16:41) - There were in bars or, in, you know, I don't know, sports stadiums, wherever it was. And that just wasn't comfortable for me. And it was incredibly it felt inauthentic. And authenticity is absolutely a key to success and in sales. And so I opted to shift gears. And I learned very early on that being a woman is actually was actually my head a differentiator. And my. Unique approach to selling was, was refreshing. and it definitely resonated well, particularly because at the time, early on, not only were were was sales very male dominated, but but the buyer group were very male dominated as well. And so, I, I believe that, you know, in comparison to my male counterparts, you know, I, I definitely had a different approach that, That resonated well with prospective buyers. Now, today. Fast forward, I think it's interesting because, you know, one, women are still underrepresented in sales. We know that particularly women from diverse communities, are way underrepresented.
Speaker 3 (00:18:09) - And we have to fix that. but, the buyer groups are changing. So as women, at least that's what I see. and I don't think it's unique just to the BPO industry. But, but as women are starting to progress into higher level decision making positions within companies that. That, you know, the buyer groups are changing, and I believe that sales organizations need to reflect and mirror your buyer group, your buyer groups. And so not only is, you know, adding more women into your sales team. The the right thing to do, right? And it's good for business. But I think that it absolutely critical, given some of the the dynamics because female buyers don't respond well to a stereotypical used car salesman, type of, of approach. So.
Speaker 2 (00:19:15) - Right that you make two great points, of course. So my book is unconscionable sales secrets. And like we talked about, you know, I also started out as one of, very few women in an exhaust automotive exhaust company. And that's where I got my nickname, Muffler Mama, because since I didn't know anything about cars, I asked one of my customers to help me install a muffler.
Speaker 2 (00:19:43) - But being a woman in that field also was an advantage, because I was the only woman who would walk through the door. And, you know, maybe I was held. I probably was held to a higher standard. At first people were skeptical, but I think that my customers, who were 99% male at the time, really appreciated that diversity, really appreciated my style. I mean, I was very conscientious. You know, I followed up, you know, I probed into their problems, all the things you're supposed to do that maybe women are better at, naturally. And your other point, someone else brought this up that now, as the workforce, all of it is, is becoming more integrated, that we still have a long way to go. But yes, a sales team with women on it reflects your customers, right. So they can. Yeah. You're right. I think that's a great point that you need to be able to relate to your customers on their level, and that that could be a huge help.
Speaker 3 (00:20:49) - I, I agree 100%. 100%.
Speaker 2 (00:20:54) - let's talk about you had a couple things I thought were great. we've talked a little bit about leveraging your skills as a woman. also, you know, confidence, overcoming fear is a big one, I think, for women. For men too. So talk about how you feel like you can best build your confidence as a sales person.
Speaker 3 (00:21:18) - Cult confidence, particularly for women, is definitely a challenge. And and for me. I found that. As I, I, I learned more right and got more experience that that continued to build my confidence. Over time, as I began closing deals and, having success and sales that continued to build my confidence over time, I'm a, you know, I, I love to read, I'm a lifelong learner. So I think if there's an area that you don't feel confident in, then it's good to lean in and, and try to learn as much as possible about about that particular area. It's good to find a mentor and sponsor would then organizations.
Speaker 3 (00:22:16) - It's good to, network and, learn from other people. I did a post today. I know this whole it'll be a while since this is post, but I was, also, I was talking about asking for help and how difficult it is quite often for women to to ask for help. And for me, I was just. And even today, it's still continues to be a challenge for me where, you know, women are are socialized to believe that if we can't do it all, and if we have to ask for help, that we are, a failure, you know? And that ties into carpentry. But I've realized that asking for help, in areas where you may need that kind of assistance is really important. And then you get as you get more confident, you can do more on your own. I know that that's what works for me.
Speaker 2 (00:23:22) - Right. And those those are great points. As I've gotten older and and we've found out we're about a month apart in age. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:23:28) - I really enjoy, as you do, mentoring younger women. You know, it's so fun to get their fresh perspective. I swear the women, several women that I mentor, I always tell them, I learn more from you than you learn from me. So yes, don't be afraid to ask for help, because I think that has also shifted a lot. When I first started in sales, I felt like the women we were competing with each other, we felt like there was right pie and and there's only room for so many. Right? And oh, and.
Speaker 3 (00:24:03) - It's it, it was way worse back then. But I, I have to say that while it's gotten a little bit better, I still feel we have a ways to go, that women often aren't kind to each other and we still are being, you know, because the the number of women in these top level positions are still relatively limited. And so I'm a really big advocate for women supporting each other, and that we need to in order to really achieve success in the long run, we need to amplify in each other's voices and uplift each other.
Speaker 3 (00:24:47) - I'm a big proponent of collaboration over competition. And, you know, I think that's the only way that we're really going to be able to move the needle. Women being unkind to each other is not helping any of us. the other thing I believe that we need to do is we can't do it alone. Right? Like so. Not only do women need to come together and support each other and collaborate with each other, but we also have to collaborate with our male allies. because the end of the day, men still dominate in these in some of these higher level decision making positions. And we need to leverage allyship to achieve, you know, success. So collaboration is key.
Speaker 2 (00:25:38) - I have been super pleased. I shouldn't say surprised, but at the the support I'm getting from men for this podcast, many of the guests that I'm booking are suggestions and recommendations for men. They are listening to it. They're promoting and sharing it. So that's awesome. but like you said, sometimes maybe there is some of that throwback feeling of we're we're competing with each other that we really need to get over.
Speaker 2 (00:26:06) - Totally over. Because I just posted something on LinkedIn the other day, by Serena Williams, and I can't remember the exact raising. But yes, we're all better when women support each other, so that's really key. And to speak to the confidence, the point about confidence, as you said, part of it is just that you have to do things that are scary that you don't feel comfortable with. that's where that whole muffler thing came from. I thought, I have to just dive in because when you're really good at what you do, then you're going to have more confidence. And by reading manuals and studying in all the trainings that they put you through, it's still not the experience that might give you that confidence. So like and.
Speaker 3 (00:26:55) - The only thing I would add to that, sorry to interrupt. the only thing I would add to that too, is to realize as you're going through the learning process, you're you're going to make mistakes, and that's okay. Right? Because every time, you know, failure is, is absolutely critical to, to to the learning process.
Speaker 3 (00:27:20) - And the more you fail, the more you learn. if you're not feeling, you're probably not pushing yourself hard enough. And so, in fact, I always say that the definition of fail is a first attempt in learning. and so as you go through that, I think you just need to give yourself from some grace and not, fear, failing. Because as you move through that, then you will gain more confidence along the way.
Speaker 2 (00:27:50) - I mean, that's that's great. Failure is the teacher, right? also, the term comes to mind. Fail fast. my husband and I are. We're golf. We're a golfing family. Our daughter played golf through college, and so we're big fans, and we're watching this show called First Swing, which has been very interesting following PGA tour players. Now there's this whole thing. I don't know whether you know about Liv golf. There's a lot of drama going on. But what's so interesting is listening to the coaches and even the sports psychologists saying the best golfers have to just forget the bad swing that they had.
Speaker 2 (00:28:32) - That hole is gone and gone.
Speaker 3 (00:28:35) - Just move.
Speaker 2 (00:28:35) - Forward. And I just I mean, sports has so many great analogies, of course. And I know that you were an athlete as a, as a child and young woman. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:28:45) - And I learned some very important lessons there. Right. It's that, you know, I was a competitive athlete. I was a equestrian, an alternate on the U.S. equestrian team, for eventing. And, you know, when you're competing, you, you know, you're getting judged. There's a judge, when you're at your show. And there were times when I would go in and I would jump a course, I'd be like, oh, gosh, that is what's the best force ever done. I'm definitely going to win the class. And I didn't get a ribbon or, you know, vice, you know, vice versa. I would go in and say, oh my God, I just totally sucked, right? Like that was awful. To the point where sometimes I'd put my horse away and just be like, and then they'd be sulking.
Speaker 2 (00:29:32) - And then you find.
Speaker 3 (00:29:33) - Out. And then I was like, oh, you got a ribbon? Or you won the class. I was like, what? So I realized very early on that, it's it, you know, that you that you can't rely necessarily on other people to give you validation of whether you're good or not. Good. that you have to. You know, my biggest competition is is with myself. so, anyway, that kind of took us a little down a different rabbit hole.
Speaker 2 (00:30:03) - But because, you know, I want this podcast to be casual and fun and interesting, and I think that that was all of the above. And like I said, I'm really intrigued. In fact, one of the if anyone's listening or Heidi, if you happen to know, I would love to talk with a sports psychologist. There was a very powerful episode that we just watched where, and she was an older gal. I shouldn't say older because she's probably our age.
Speaker 3 (00:30:32) - But I mean.
Speaker 2 (00:30:33) - Julie, who helped one of the players named Wyndham Clark, just absolutely turned his game around. And I got snippets of the things that she would tell him. I thought, I would love to have someone like that on my podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:30:46) - So yeah, just to go full circle on that. And is that, you know, if I lost or if I didn't get a ribbon or if I won, at the end of the day, that's just it's behind you, right? You have to go on to your next your next course, your next show, your next. And if you dwell on if you dwell on it, then, you know, it could, you could really get in your head and it can impact your performance. Up for the long term. Same thing in sales, right? Exactly. A lot of rejection in sales, you know. So, if you if you dwell on that. No. Or that loss or that hang up or whatever, whatever it is, it will negatively impact your performance moving forward.
Speaker 3 (00:31:39) - I mean, maybe that's why I sort of became a master compartmentalization, realizing that it's just business and it's not personal, but, I think yeah, I think that's a very important life lesson.
Speaker 2 (00:31:54) - I'm glad that you agree. And, believe it or not, our time is over. I knew it would fly by. This has been such a fun and enlightening conversation. Anyone listening? I really encourage you to get Heidi's book Heels to Deals how women are dominating in business to business sales. Such successful and very wise women with great, advice. And also, like I said, you do a great job of throwing in your philosophy too, which is super helpful. So, Heidi, thank you. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:32:33) - I appreciate you having me.
Speaker 1 (00:32:37) - Thanks for listening to this episode of Unstoppable Women in Sales, your source for secrets you can use to make more sales. Check the show notes for links and contact information, and if you enjoyed the podcast, please spread the word by subscribing, sharing and leaving a five star review.
Speaker 1 (00:32:53) - You can always learn more by going to Unstoppable Sales Company. Cast. Until next time, go out and supercharge your sales like a true un copyable Rockstar.