Episode 98 | Build YOUR Uncopyable Brand! (Kay's Guest Appearance on Ali Schwanke's Podcast, "Marketing Deconstructed")

I’m excited to bring you my conversation with Ali Schwanke on her podcast, Marketing Deconstructed. Ali is the founder of Simple Strat, and helps clients use technology and tools like Hubspot to generate ROI.  Personal branding is something we're both passionate about. So when Ali invited me to be a guest on her show, it's no surprise that we had a a fun, lively, and inspiring conversation.  Listen in as we dive into the how-to's of making your personal brand truly uncopyable. 

Ali highlights the importance of “small deposits of familiarity” to build connection and trust, while I share stories, including my Muffler Mama origin  story, that showcase the power of a strong personal brand. From identifying your ideal client (a.k.a. your “moose”) to crafting a memorable message, this episode covers practical steps for defining what sets you apart.

Listen in for tips to elevate your brand, connect with your ideal audience, and stand out in a crowded market. Enjoy the episode and get ready to discover your uncopyable advantage!

About Ali:

Ali Schwanke is a marketing strategist, entrepreneur, and advisor, known as the "HubSpot Queen." As the founder of Simple Strat, a Diamond HubSpot Solutions partner, she helps companies worldwide to train teams, and scale their systems. Ali hosts HubSpot Hacks, the leading unofficial channel for HubSpot tutorials, and Marketing Deconstructed, a podcast and YouTube show guiding SMB leaders on marketing and growth. A blend of creative and analytical, she creates content-driven strategies that drive results. Outside of work, she’s a reader, runner, mom, and tech enthusiast.

Reach Ali:
linkedin.com/in/alischwanke
simplestrat.com

Ali's Personal Resources:

HubSpot Hacks YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@HubSpotHacks/videos

Marketing Deconstructed Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Txb55FyyhKa7k6GKuRJul

Newsletter:
https://marketingdeconstructed.com/

Kay Miller interviews women in sales with proven track records, as they share their experiences, success strategies and tools you can use to crush your sales goals. Kay has a history of sales success, earning the nickname “Muffler Mama” when she sold more automotive mufflers than anyone in the world. Kay and her guests deliver actionable insights and real-world tools that will help you overcome obstacles, adopt a winning mindset, and maximize your sales results.

Kay is the author of the book, Uncopyable Sales Secrets – How to Create an Unfair Advantage and Outsell the Competition. Go to Amazon.com and search “Uncopyable Sales Secrets” to order the book, or click the link below.

Contact:
kay@uncopyablesales.com
linkedin.com/in/millerkay
Order Uncopyable Sales Secrets: amzn.to/35dGlYZ

Transcript

Intro
Welcome to Uncopyable Women in Business! I’m your host, Kay Miller, also known as Muffler Mama. In September, I interviewed Ali Schwanke, founder of Simple Strapped. Ali amazed me with her tech knowledge, especially around tools like HubSpot, which she uses to gather data and drive ROI through content marketing. She also hosts her own podcast, Marketing Deconstructed. It turns out that personal branding is a passion for both of us, and she invited me to be a guest on her show. We had a fantastic conversation, and I hope you enjoy it as much as we did.

Ali Schwanke: 00:00:42
I’m excited to chat with you about your perspective on personal branding. That term can stir mixed reactions—some people love it, while others might think, “I’m not a solopreneur, so why bother?” But before we dive in, let’s mention that you’re the author of Uncopyable U. I’m holding it up here on the video if you’re watching on YouTube. This book is such a great guide for anyone building a personal brand, especially if they're in sales or doing founder-led sales as an entrepreneur. Today, let’s get really tactical—ready to go?

Kay Miller: 00:01:29
Absolutely!

Ali Schwanke: 00:01:31
Great! So, first, tell me why you felt the need to write this book.

Kay Miller: 00:01:36
Because whether you represent a company or just yourself—whether you’re selling a vision, looking for a job, or representing a brand—you want to set yourself apart, especially if there are competitors selling the same thing. Personal branding is a powerful way to be unstoppable. That’s our core framework across all of our books. People buy from you because you’re different, not the same as everyone else. Even though products and services can be copied, you can’t be. This philosophy felt like a natural fit, so my husband and I co-authored the book. We had a lot of fun, and I’m excited to share it.

Ali Schwanke: 00:02:38
The timing of this conversation is perfect. I just attended the biggest HubSpot marketing conference, where everyone is either a HubSpot partner or user. And what you highlight in the book—standing out in a sea of similar offerings—is so relevant. So, how do you help people identify what makes them unique, both in your book and in your consulting?

Kay Miller: 00:03:12
When it comes to personal branding, it starts with identifying what’s important to you: your vision, your purpose, and meaningful aspects of your life you want to express through your work. It’s about figuring out what you represent and then communicating it effectively. Recently, I helped a company create their own guidelines and playbook to establish their unique set of rules. In our book, we emphasize defining yourself differently from others. I work with clients to help them communicate in ways that truly set them apart—even if they’re aligned with a company brand, they can develop their personal brand to stand out.

Kay Miller: 00:04:22
For example, in a competitive environment like HubSpot, how do people remember Ali? Is it her personality, her success stories, or even her beautiful hair? When we recorded a fun bonus episode, I asked her what she likes about herself, and she mentioned her great hair. Believe it or not, that can make someone memorable! It’s about finding those unique elements. For me, it’s my “Muffler Mama” story—would you like to hear it?

Ali Schwanke: 00:05:14
Definitely! We also have some case studies to discuss, but let’s hear your story first. And how do you guide a sales team member in building their brand while aligning with their company’s market approach?

Kay Miller: 00:05:39
Personal branding should align with the company’s values, but also be memorable. For example, we always wear orange, use specific language, and follow a unique philosophy. Crafting a memorable story is another way to do it. When I worked at Walker Exhaust, I went out of my way to do something different—something unforgettable.

Kay Miller 00:06:24
I was one of the only women, so that was something I could use for my own personal brand. Of course, I can't change the fact that I'm a woman, but if you’ve got something unique about you, you can use that. Another thing I did, which no one else did, was visit one of my customers. I sold mufflers, exhaust products, catalytic converters—super exciting, right? I’m sure you’re so jealous right now.

Ali Schwanke 00:06:52
(laughs) Yeah.

Kay Miller 00:06:54
I didn’t know how to use the product or install a muffler. As my husband points out, I knew nothing about cars and wasn’t even that great of a driver. My accidents happened while going backward, but thanks to backup cameras, I’m better now! Even quirks like that, things that make you unique, can tie into your brand. When I went to install a muffler, I was doing it to learn more than I could find in training or manuals.

Kay Miller 00:07:34
I was also developing a story I could share. I got the nickname Muffler Mama, which has followed me to this day. That story represents my philosophy: I want to serve the customer. I want to find my "moose," which we’ll discuss in a minute, and that is your ideal target market. I want to show them that I genuinely have their best interest at heart. Who wouldn’t want to buy from someone with that attitude? So, think about what’s important to you and how you communicate that to your customer. I have a branding promise, and it’s represented by what I do.

Ali Schwanke 00:08:29
You’ve given some key insights, especially about showing up regularly. If you’re not consistently in the spaces where your target audience spends time, you miss that chance. Small deposits of familiarity over time create memorability. For example, if you post on LinkedIn every Friday, maybe call it "Muffler Mama Fridays" to build an expectation of value each week. Many people don’t think about what makes them different; they focus only on what to post.

Ali Schwanke 00:08:45
Can you talk us through this concept of the moose? Where did the idea come from, and how does it fit into personal branding?

Kay Miller 00:09:24
We’re covering a lot here, but let’s talk about consistency, as you mentioned. Something Steve and I emphasize is being brilliant at the basics. It’s not about doing something extreme; even simple follow-ups build trust and show you’re a consistent resource for your "moose," your ideal customer who values what you offer.

Ali Schwanke 00:10:12
We’ve discussed follow-ups before, especially in sales. Why is being known as trustworthy such a differentiator today?

Kay Miller 00:10:25
When you’re in relationship selling, it’s not a one-and-done deal. You want your customer to see you as a trusted advisor. One of the best compliments I received was when a customer said, “Kay is an asset. We don’t know what we’d do without her.” You bring knowledge, resources, and value. Even in follow-ups, have a next step in mind, showing you paid attention to prior interactions.

Kay Miller 00:11:59
There are many tools available to help find your ideal target and serve their needs. Follow-up is a huge opportunity. Just the act of following up sets you apart, and the way you follow up by delivering value along the way is important. Show you remembered what they said during your last interaction.

Ali Schwanke 00:12:19
So, the moose is the ideal customer. I’m curious—where did that come from, and why do you use it?

Kay Miller 00:12:31
It comes from a story involving my husband. He was speaking with Dr. Robert Schuller, who said, "How do you hunt moose?" He explained that if you were hunting moose, you’d learn everything you could about them: where they hang out, what they need. If you spent time looking for other animals, you’d waste valuable time.

Kay Miller 00:14:05
The term "moose" resonates because it’s so specific and easy to picture. If you’re selling something upscale, you want to attract the right customers. Some people vacation at a Motel 6, while others go to a fabulous resort. The idea is to know your personal brand and make sure it resonates with your "moose."

Ali Schwanke 00:15:13
Absolutely, and when you have the right audience, their definition of “expensive” doesn’t matter.

Kay Miller 00:15:26
Exactly. I interviewed Andrea Waltz, author of Go for No, and she said, “Don’t assume the price a customer is willing to pay.” Unless you hear “no,” how do you know if they wouldn’t go further? Price objections are a great example—you’re not just selling a price, you’re selling value. And sometimes, if your customer doesn’t have the budget, that’s a sign they aren’t your moose.

Ali Schwanke 00:16:32
So if someone asks for a referral and says, "Anyone using HubSpot," that’s too broad. You want to be surrounded by your "herd of moose," not just any random prospects.

Kay Miller 00:16:59
Exactly. Selling HubSpot, the unique part is you—how you interact and serve your customers.

Ali Schwanke 00:17:46
Once you’ve defined your moose, you and Steve talk about “stealing genius.” Can you explain that?

Kay Miller 00:17:55
“Stealing genius” is looking outside your world for ideas. We worked with a manufacturing client who held large trade shows, so we took them to an American Girl doll store to see how they created experiences for customers. Each doll has a story, outfits, pets, and furniture—it’s more than just a doll. This idea of creating an experience can apply to any product or service.

Kay Miller 00:19:45
Challenge yourself to look beyond your industry. Draw inspiration from nature, music, anything that helps elevate what you’re doing.

Ali Schwanke 00:20:29
Yeah, I love that example, because I'm on that same bus where if you want to become inspired, look at another industry, not necessarily even your own industry. Like I'll think that when I'm watching my son play baseball and I'm watching the team and it's just like this intricate dance of trusting that your shortstop is always going to get there. So you're not trying to all play one position because you don't trust one person or you see, I mean, I can see one player get one certain batting glove, and soon the whole team has that batting glove because they think it’s like the magic thing, you know, that they can hit the ball, right?

Kay Miller 00:20:58
Right.

Kay Miller 00:20:58
The magic bullet.

Ali Schwanke 00:20:59
Yeah. Or like when I travel, you know, the experience on the airplanes, the experience in hotels, all of those things give you a little bit of insight into genius. And I think you mentioned this in your book, like Steve Jobs finding inspiration in calligraphy and bringing that to the Mac and everything. I think if you're just trying not to be so boxed in, there are ways, to use your term, to be unstoppable in those ideas.

Kay Miller 00:21:27
Right. And not only not being boxed in, but we say don’t just get out of the box, but build your own box. And I think we tell a story in the book about Space Mountain. Who hasn’t been on Space Mountain at Disneyland? Well, what is Space Mountain? It is a roller coaster, but it’s wrapped in an experience. I don’t think anyone would describe it as a roller coaster.

Kay Miller 00:21:52
What were they looking at? Maybe they were looking at outer space or a space museum or some type of really immersive experience so that they define themselves totally differently than everyone else. And of course, Steve Jobs, you know, he said something about Picasso: "Good artists copy, great artists steal." So you’re stealing, but you’re stealing from something that’s so far outside your world that it’s not going to be copyable inside your world.

Ali Schwanke 00:22:22
I found that to be good and also a way for me to get out of sometimes when you see—I don’t know if you ever do this—but when I see myself and I see other peers in my industry, let’s say posting on LinkedIn, and I’m like, "Oh my gosh, I just, I feel like I’m not hitting the right chords." And then I look to someone who’s doing like, there was a series a long time ago when YouTube first got started, and there was someone that was demonstrating the power of a blender, and they did a series called "Will It Blend?" And they would blend everything.

Ali Schwanke 00:22:48
Hockey sticks, iPads. Oh my gosh, shoes.

Kay Miller 00:22:51
I totally remember that. That was such a huge hit, and everybody wanted to know. Yeah, will it blend?

Ali Schwanke 00:22:59
How long will it blend? And you’re like, "Oh my god, you’re blending an iPad. Are you crazy?" But I think when I look at those types of things—and that’s why I love some of the Instagram videos that come across my feed too—because let’s face it, most of my Instagram videos are about cats and cooking. That’s about it. But I can find some ways in there to talk about how we might help people with technology by using “recipes.” So I’m working on a couple of shorts about, like, the recipe of getting leads into your CRM, and kind of being creative with that.

Kay Miller 00:23:28
Hey, I think that’s a perfect example. It’s taking something from the world of cooking. And I think it makes you curious. What is the recipe? It’s not just saying, "Okay, here are the steps," but getting people to think how many variations are in a recipe.

Kay Miller 00:23:45
And if you put a little bit more sage or cumin or whatever, it’s going to change everything. So I really like that analogy. I think that’s part of Stealing Genius. It’s also delivering content, which is something you do, something I do, and something that any salesperson, entrepreneur, or solopreneur can do to deliver content and value upfront. One of them might be entertaining, you know, like “Will it blend?” I mean, that is such a famous example, and I bet everybody listening has watched one of those videos.

Ali Schwanke 00:24:18
Yeah, back to the original days of viral content.

Kay Miller 00:24:21
Right, right, right. Very good.

Ali Schwanke 00:24:23
Well, one of the things that I kind of... I put some—again, holding up the book here with my sticky notes all over it—that I pulled out in the book was this concept of anchors and triggers. And we're kind of getting to this a little bit, I think, in like how people come up with ideas, but I’m just going to read the title of the chapter because I want to go into this.

Ali Schwanke 00:24:40
So: Create anchors and triggers to evoke your personal brand and promise. So, one, what do you mean by that? And then, you know, what are some steps we can kind of take to do that?

Kay Miller 00:24:49
You know, when you say evoking what you stand for, again, I think one anchor can be your story, which we already talked about, a unique story or the story of a customer. And so that’s an anchor. An anchor could also be a symbol, which, again, we use color and language. It’s something about you. Again, go for quirky. Go for something about you that’s unique. We have a client who’s crazy about ketchup. Well, how many people do you know that are crazy about ketchup? So, there are symbols, but there are also the parts of the promise that set you apart. And I’m a big fan of just telling your customer, "I want you to win. I want you to be happy." And if that’s not the case, then, you know, I don’t want to sell you something that you don’t like.

Kay Miller 00:25:41
So if you just talk about your branding promise, that’s something that I believe people will remember. And I think you wanted to talk about Katie. And that will come up when we talk about Katie.

Ali Schwanke 00:25:52
Yeah. Well, so Katie was an example from the book that I had called out to Kay here. And I think the reason why it jumped out to me is sometimes when we think of personal branding, we think of the “creator” personality where like they’ve got their online course, and they’re doing stuff on socials, and that’s their business. But the reality is 95% of people that are doing “personal branding” are actually working in a role representing a product or a service for another company. So they’re in sales, they’re the founder. And so Katie’s example was, you know, she’s working in sales for this company. And I’ll kind of go into the story here. But I thought it was very practical as far as like what it really looks like in real life.

Kay Miller 00:26:30
Yeah.

Kay Miller 00:26:31
So Katie started out selling cars, and they were high-end cars. Then she got interested in selling RVs, which, as we talked about a little before the show, can cost up to $1 million. So she is selling very high-end RVs, and she's got a lot of competition. So she sets herself apart in several ways. One, which we just talked about, is that she is on video. She’s done a ton of video, and she’s helped me with video because she said, "When you first start doing videos, you are crappy."

Ali Schwanke 00:27:08
So you have to be terrible at first, people. It's just the way it is.

Kay Miller 00:27:12
Yeah. And so, you know, she is so personable in her videos. She’s also branded herself as Katie RV O’Neil. So that’s something that’s not copyable. And even if someone tried to do something similar, it would be really obvious that they’re copying Katie. So Katie is all over YouTube. You can look her up, and you’ll see that she’s doing things with her style.

Kay Miller 00:27:40
She’ll wear a cowboy hat, she’ll wear moon boots, and she’ll, you know, go to the back where there’s an extra bunk bed, and she’ll lay across the bunk bed and say, "This is so comfortable." And she'll go through each coach that she's showing off and say, "Boy, if you need a place for your curling iron, this is perfect. And if you’re a hunter and you need a place for a side of beef, here you go." She also has a branding promise. And she says, "I want everyone I interact with to be better for the experience." So it's not tied to a sale. She just wants to be helpful.

Ali Schwanke 00:30:00
Yes, her videos are so real and authentic. And it makes sense why she does video because with a product like that, people want to experience it visually. But I think, whether it’s video or not, you can do a lot to be creative with showing the product’s features in a way that engages people.

Kay Miller 00:30:57
Yes, exactly. You know, your personal brand is essentially what people say about you when you’re not in the room. And you already have a brand. The thing is, if you don’t intentionally direct it, it might not end up being how you want to be perceived. So Katie is very intentional with her brand.

Ali Schwanke 00:32:41
Yeah, it’s like my Lego blocks here in the background. It’s real. People always ask about it. And it’s not about being eccentric, but adding something memorable after you’ve delivered value. I mean, think of Lady Gaga’s “meat dress.” Okay, that’s extreme, but we don’t have to be that intense to be memorable.

Kay Miller 00:33:24
Exactly. I mean, with virtual backgrounds, yours is authentic and different. People sometimes overlook what’s right there, you know? And like you said, you don’t have to be weird, just think about combining things in a way that feels authentically “you.”

Ali Schwanke 00:36:18
Totally. People often go to your profile to learn more after meeting you. So personal brand becomes this powerful part of your sales approach. And speaking of personal branding, you also offer a five-step course on building a profitable personal brand, which I’m excited our listeners can check out.

Kay Miller 00:36:38
Yes, and that course is about asking questions to help you uncover what really makes you tick and find that deeper connection with your customers. We talk about finding your “moose,” that ideal client. And once you do, your brand can really resonate with them. It’s all in the book, too, for anyone who wants the full roadmap.

Ali Schwanke 00:37:48
Kay, thank you so much for your insights today.