Episode 123 | Exposing the Med Spa Industry - Dr. Kate Dee

Today, I’m joined by my friend Dr. Kate Dee, a Yale-educated MD, business owner, and the author of Med Spa Mayhem—a revealing exposé of the medical aesthetics industry. She’s also the host of the Med Spa Mayhem Podcast and founder of Glow MediSpa in Seattle.

I first met Kate on a weekly ski bus to Crystal Mountain, and talked about everything from her Ivy League background to her passion for medical aesthetics. What started as a curiosity led her to build a thriving aesthetics business—growing to two locations—all while uncovering serious industry problems that most people don’t realize exist.

In this episode, Kate shares what’s really happening in the world of med spas, from unqualified practitioners to fake products and risky treatments. We also talk about:

• Why Botox parties at people’s homes might not be the best idea.
• The process of writing her book and how it became a major credibility booster.
• Her next big mission—creating a national certification to help consumers find safe, legitimate med spas.
• The rise of weight loss drugs like Ozempic and why she believes they could replace bariatric surgery.

If you’ve ever considered an aesthetic treatment, starting a business, or want to hear about the challenges of an exploding industry, you won’t want to miss this conversation!

🔗 Links from the episode:

• Med Spa Mayhem (book)
• Glow Medispa Seattle
• Med Spa Mayhem Podcast

Listen now and be sure to subscribe! 🎧💡

About Dr. Kate Dee:

Dr. Kate Dee is the author of the aesthetics industry exposé, Medspa Mayhem, and founder of Glow Medispa, where she performs all aspects of medical aesthetics, from injectables and skin care to lasers and body sculpting. A graduate of Yale, she earned a BS in biology in 1989 and her MD there in 1994. In addition to her medical practice, Dr. Dee has a special interest in business ethics and the medicolegal aspects of practicing aesthetic medicine.

Reach Dr. Kate Dee:

Website

Book

Instagram

Facebook

Kay Miller interviews women in sales with proven track records, as they share their experiences, success strategies and tools you can use to crush your sales goals. Kay has a history of sales success, earning the nickname “Muffler Mama” when she sold more automotive mufflers than anyone in the world. Kay and her guests deliver actionable insights and real-world tools that will help you overcome obstacles, adopt a winning mindset, and maximize your sales results.

Kay is the author of the book, Uncopyable Sales Secrets – How to Create an Unfair Advantage and Outsell the Competition. Go to Amazon.com and search “Uncopyable Sales Secrets” to order the book, or click the link below.

Contact:
kay@uncopyablesales.com
linkedin.com/in/millerkay
Order Uncopyable Sales Secrets: amzn.to/35dGlYZ

Transcript

Kay Miller 00:00:00 Welcome to Uncopyable Women in Business. I'm your host, Kay Miller, also known as Muffler Mama. Stay tuned as I, along with my guests, give you marketing, sales, and personal branding strategies that will give you an advantage. Hey, welcome to this episode where I get to chat with my friend Dr. Kate Dee.

Kate's the author of the aesthetics industry exposé Med Spa Mayhem. She's also the host of the Med Spa Mayhem podcast and founder of Glow Medics in Seattle. Kate performs all aspects of medical aesthetics, from injectables and skincare to lasers and body sculpting. Kate is a graduate of Yale, where she earned a BS in biology and her MD. In addition to her medical practice, Dr. Dee has a special interest in the business ethics of the med spa industry.

Kate, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:01:02 Hey, thanks so much for having me today.

Kay Miller 00:01:04 I'm excited to talk with you. And I do have to mention that I met you skiing at Crystal Mountain, and there's a ski bus that goes up every Wednesday, and you were part of that bus for probably just one year.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:01:18 Yeah, it was just one winter.

Kay Miller 00:01:21 And that winter you were getting ready to go to Italy with your kids and ski.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:01:25 So I was trying to train myself up so I'd be able to ski in Italy, because that was a big deal. Yeah. Yes.

Kay Miller 00:01:32 And it sounds like that trip turned out really well.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:01:35 It was phenomenal. Yeah. With your kids.

Kay Miller 00:01:37 Yeah. And so it's also interesting because we sat together on the bus and skied together some. And you, of course, told me about your history graduating from Yale. That's pretty impressive. And then you were involved with breast—

Dr. Kate Dee 00:01:54 Cancer primarily.

Kay Miller 00:01:56 For testing. Yeah. And so then you went into the spa business and did aesthetics.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:02:03 That was about ten years ago. Yeah, all medical aesthetics.

Kay Miller 00:02:06 Then you grew to two locations, which speaks highly of your reputation and your service. And then also when we were talking a couple of years ago, you said, I'm so passionate about what's going on in the aesthetics industry and the lack of regulation and the horror stories.

Kay Miller 00:02:23 I'm going to write a book about that. And I'm like, okay, good luck. A lot of people want to write books. Lo and behold, I think it was a year ago. I get a message, "Hey, my book is out Med Spa Mayhem and it's doing really well. It's got tons of positive reviews." So first of all, good on you because how many people say, "I'm going to do this or that," and a book is a big deal.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:02:47 Thank you. I think at the time when I met you, I had written maybe 75, 80% of the book, and I just—I had started writing, and I just couldn't stop because there are so many crazy things going on in the industry. I've been in it now for ten years, and it just gets crazier and crazier as the industry has grown.

And so at that time, I was like, oh, I have pretty much most of a book, but I really don't know how to publish a book. So I was just asking anyone who would talk to me about it, "What do I do?" So I really, actually appreciate your encouragement back then. That was really helpful.

Kay Miller 00:03:25 That's good. So just in a sentence or two, how did you get that book published? Because I'm sure some of you listening are thinking, "Yeah, I'd like to write a book," which is a huge credibility factor, and it's the world's best calling card. And, of course, you can make money on royalties, although that's not the big money earner. But how—what was the process of you finding a publisher and getting that done?

Dr. Kate Dee 00:03:47 I wish I could say that it was any kind of systematic thing at all. I happened upon a connection to Forbes Books. They have a publishing arm called Advantage Books, and they do mostly business books. And even though my book is business-related but also covers a bigger topic, they loved it.

They were like, "Okay, we'll get you an editor and whatever." And then that editor really helped me finish it. She helped me organize it into something that resembled more of a book rather than a bunch of random topics. They're all related, of course, but I didn't write it in the order in which you read it now in the book at all.

Kay Miller 00:04:27 That's a big advantage of having a publisher—not only do they help with marketing, but it's also a big deal because there are so many self-published books. It's great to have a publisher. But like you said, you also get an editor, which is huge.

I've written a book and co-written a book. And you're right, it's one thing to have all these great ideas, but it's another thing to organize them in a cohesive format. So you found Advantage Books, or they found you. Let's talk about your passion and what you've seen in the industry first.

What's wrong? I mean, I've heard of Botox parties at people's houses—I'm guessing that's not the safest thing. And you've got insider information on a whole bunch of stuff. So let's talk about that aspect. And then, I’d also love to dive into your journey—starting a business and growing to two locations, obviously being very successful.

So that’s a lot, but let’s see what you can take from there.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:05:25 Well, from there, I can summarize it by basically just painting a picture here. So Botox was first approved for cosmetic use in 2003. The industry was brand new back then—just barely more than 20 years ago. And since then, it has skyrocketed. Initially, everything was within traditional medicine, which is heavily regulated with countless laws. But over time, more and more people have entered the industry. Some are doctors like me, who are permitted to practice medicine, but many others are not doctors and are not legally allowed to practice medicine—but they're doing it anyway. As the industry grows, more people see med spas popping up on every corner and think, "Oh, I want in on that."

Dr. Kate Dee 00:06:16 The issue is that many of these people are either practicing outside the scope of their license—meaning they can only practice under a doctor but are doing it independently—or they have no medical license at all and are operating illegally. Some are ordering fake products off the internet or using cheap, counterfeit equipment instead of legitimate medical devices. The result? It’s become really risky. Ten years ago, most places offering Botox or laser hair removal were legitimate. Now, you walk into a spa that looks nice, where people are wearing scrubs, and you assume it's legitimate—but often, it’s not. And it can be incredibly dangerous. More and more people are being harmed. Some are even dying. Others suffer from severe infections or receive counterfeit or incorrect products.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:07:27 For instance, there was a case not long ago in Seattle where someone thought they were receiving semaglutide (Ozempic), but it turned out to be fake and relabeled insulin. That person nearly died from a hypoglycemic episode. It’s a serious problem. And I do believe most people genuinely care about these risks. That’s why I wrote my book—to tell these crazy stories and expose the "Wild West" of the industry. But it's also about educating people—giving them the right questions to ask so they can ensure they’re going to a legitimate, safe provider.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:08:15 Beyond the book, my next big goal—although it’s still in its early stages—is working with other concerned doctors to create a national nonprofit that certifies med spas. This wouldn’t be about ranking them or saying one is better than another. It would simply confirm that a facility is operating legally and safely. We need more consumer protection in this industry. But that’s still in the baby-idea phase—it hasn’t happened yet.

Kay Miller 00:08:23 Considering that two years ago you said you were going to write a book—and you did—something tells me you’re going to make this happen, too.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:08:30 I hope so! I’m also trying to get the book made into a movie or a documentary, but I have no idea what I’m doing when it comes to that. Still, I’m giving it my best shot.

Kay Miller 00:08:35 If only you had a little more ambition, Kate—right?

Dr. Kate Dee 00:08:38 Ha! If there's one thing I don’t lack, it’s determination.

Kay Miller 00:08:41 And I call you Kate because we’ve talked before. You’re Dr. D professionally, but hey, I know you now.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:08:45 Right now, I’m just Kate! That’s my name. I like "Dr. D"—but "Dr. Kate" sounds weird to me. Maybe that just makes me old, I don’t know.

Kay Miller 00:08:52 You’re not old! You’re younger than me.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:08:56 Well, that’s true.

Kay Miller 00:08:57 You’re still super young. But speaking of horror stories—Linda Evangelista comes to mind.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:09:02 Yes.

Kay Miller 00:09:03 Did I say that right? So she had fillers that went wrong?

Dr. Kate Dee 00:09:10 No, it was CoolSculpting. She very famously sued Allergan, the company that makes CoolSculpting. I would love to talk to her about it. She had a big lawsuit that was settled for about $50 million.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:09:31 CoolSculpting is a fat-reduction treatment that freezes fat cells, which are then supposed to die off. But it has known complications. One of the worst is paradoxical adipose hyperplasia, where instead of shrinking, the fat actually grows—and it becomes rock hard and unresponsive to traditional treatments. Now, instead of less fat, you have a large, hard lump of fat that won’t go away.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:10:02 The real question is how often this happens. Allergan has always claimed the risk is less than 1%, but some industry insiders and a New York Times investigation suggest it could be much higher—potentially between 20% and 50%, depending on how you calculate it. If you measure by individual suction cup treatments, the risk rate could be substantial.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:10:32 Back when I spoke to professionals in the industry, many believed the risk was closer to 20%. But the true rate has been obscured because, historically, when patients developed this complication, the company would offer to fix it—but only if they signed a non-disclosure agreement (NDA). That means we don’t really know how many cases have occurred.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:10:46 So she got coolsculpting pretty much all over her body. She claimed to be disfigured and she sued them and they settled it for $50 million. So my guess is she signed an NDA as part of that. I can't. I've tried to reach out. I don't think she can talk about it. But then the New York Times, right around that time, did this big. They did actually a series of articles about Coolsculpting, and they suggested that the actual, rate of this was not less than 1%, which is what the company said, but was somewhere between 20 and 50%, depending on how you count it. If you count per suction cup full of fat that was frozen. And I have to say that back when I was talking to various people in the industry, their thoughts were that it was closer to 20%. And I could believe that. I don't really know, I have no, I never had that service done to me was not something I ever thought I felt confident that I would ever want.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:11:45 And I don't own that machine, but basically that's what happened to her. But that's even that was done at a legitimate place. Okay, so even if you go to a legitimate legal place, doesn't mean you're going to have good outcomes. And and that's also that's a whole other topic for discussion, which I actually do talk a bit in the book. Why choose one thing over another? Why do I have the services that I do? Because it has to produce results and it has to be safe. And I think that's the biggest thing in this industry. People are busy taking money for what anybody is willing to pay for, rather than what really works and what's safe and effective. It's a really fraught industry, but it's a $20 billion industry. And just to put that in perspective, like that's bigger than the NFL. Okay. So it's big, right? There are basically as many med spots as there are Starbucks. Okay. And there really in my opinion, there needs to be a little more, not necessarily more regulation because there is a lot of regulation but no enforcement.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:12:49 So there's essentially no enforcement for med spa. So it's up to the consumer to self educate and know what to ask before you commit to some treatment.

Kay Miller 00:13:01 Right. And reading your book is a great place to start if you're considering any procedures. And Botox has been, you know, it's been so common for years now that I think we just don't really think it through. I haven't had it yet or I haven't had it. I shouldn't say, yeah, but you and I talked because I know that you do great work and that safety is key. I am curious. We didn't really talk about this, but, when you talk about being profitable, the fact that Botox advertises on TV tells me there's profit. And I'm also shocked about how bariatric surgery is advertised. Hey, can't lose weight, get bariatric surgery. I know a couple people personally who've had it, and it was a nightmare. And even if it goes right, it's not.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:13:51 Oh, it's a very big surgery. Yeah, I think the GLP ones are going to put the bariatric surgery business out of business.

Kay Miller 00:13:59 Because GLP what's.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:14:01 The big. And Munjal and then that there are new ones coming out and they're very effective and very safe. Especially Banjara is that's the newer one. It's the weight loss drug is called Zepp Band. And then the generic is called TRS appetite. But those drugs work really well with very low side effects. Although I think TRS peptides better than those than semaglutide. That's a whole other. I have a podcast about that. But but I think that surgery is going to go away because because these drugs are so effective and they're getting better and better. I'm sure the next one that comes out is going to be, you know, even better and more targeted for weight loss. But and I do actually think it's going to save people's lives to people who are diabetic. It will literally help you not be a diabetic anymore. That's how crazy it is, which we've never really successfully done, ever in medicine. Anyway.

Kay Miller 00:14:58 I want to take a quick break to ask you a question. Does your personal brand set you apart and make you unforgettable? If you're not 100% sure you need buy.

Kay Miller 00:15:11 Free email series five steps to a Profitable Personal Brand. Sign up and get a daily email for five days, plus a bonus. A list of personal branding shortcuts that will give you an unstoppable advantage. Go to. The number five emails. This is such an interesting issue because we have such a weight problem in the country. So I'm curious. I know that this isn't your specialty, but as a medical doctor, what do you think then? It sounds like you think those drugs are the new one. especially. It's pretty safe. So I want to speak to that. And then also do you have a specific podcast episode on that then? Did you.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:15:59 Is that do I'd have to look up the number. I did.

Kay Miller 00:16:02 I can.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:16:02 Put that down.

Kay Miller 00:16:03 In the show.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:16:04 Notes. Okay, cool. Yeah I've done three total. About the first one was on Ozempic and then the second one was about turtle peptide. And then the third one is about more recent because Tresemme Tide came off the FDA shortage list.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:16:18 And now it's going to be hard to get, but which makes no sense, right? That sounds opposite of what's true. But both of them were being offered in lots of places around the country because they were on a shortage list, and they're being compounded. But the FDA took peptide off the shortage list, so it's going to be much harder if you won't be able to get compounded TRS peptide anymore. So but anyway, yeah, these drugs basically mimic a hormone in your body that makes you feel full and sated. And so you just don't crave the food You feel full with less food, and you don't have the food chatter that goes on in your head where you're really hungry and you're thinking about being hungry and thinking about eating and thinking, thinking and thinking. And it just takes that away. And it actually also takes away people's cravings for other things like alcohol and cigarettes and drugs. And people have used these same drugs to to quit alcohol and drugs. So it's amazing. And the weight loss is pretty phenomenal.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:17:18 And the reason I liked his appetite better is because there are very few side effects, and it actually produces more weight loss than semaglutide does. And but they both are very effective. And I think that if you really have no harm but you're not muscle wasting, you're not starving, you're just eating kind of a more reasonable amount and able to lose the weight and keep it off. Amazing. It's amazing. The main issue with them right now is that it's an injectable. There are oral like there are pills, but the pills don't work as well and you have to take a much higher dose. And how do you get the injection and how do you administer that? How do you get it to the patient? What kind of. It's a little it's a little more complicated. But while you're on it, it's once a week. And then once you're in maintenance, it's somewhere around once every three weeks.

Kay Miller 00:18:07 One thing I wonder is, do you prescribe that medication? And then also, I'd like you to just briefly run through the services that you do offer.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:18:16 We have been in my office doing a peptide program, but that is very much up in the air. [...]

Kay Miller 00:19:45 And I will put that link to your website, which is Doctor kate.com. I will put that link in the show notes. Along with some other links that you'll send to me. Like the episode you're talking about.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:19:57 So that is my author website with the book and the podcast and then the the link to glow I can send you, but it's Glow Spa Seattle. Com.

Kay Miller 00:20:08 Okay, that's pretty straightforward. So you do use I can't remember what you just said, but it reminds me is that the same thing that Sono Bello does that fat. What is sono bello?

Dr. Kate Dee 00:20:20 I think Sono Bello focuses on liposuction, so I can't really comment about the big chains other than I'm not the biggest fan.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:20:28 But yeah, I think they're mostly focused on liposuction, which is not something that we do at all. And we don't do anything invasive like that. Liposuction is actually like surgery.

Kay Miller 00:20:37 And if you've ever watched a video or a show on liposuction, I'm like, I'm never doing that.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:20:42 So it's a.

Kay Miller 00:20:43 Little.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:20:44 Gruesome looking when they show that. Yeah.

Kay Miller 00:20:47 But it's a quick fix and we love quick fixes. We want the little red pill that fixes everything we write works well.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:20:54 The thing about liposuction is not exactly a quick fix, because there's quite a recovery time from that, typically a few months. But when weirdly, the weight loss programs are a crazy quick fix. And that's why it's just been very impressive, right? And now, like everyone's offering Weight Watchers offers it. Noom offers it. There's all these online ones like hers, and it's basically in the water now. It's very expensive water, however.

Kay Miller 00:21:24 And it's yeah, in some ways it seems like, wow, what a way to spend money.

Kay Miller 00:21:28 But I do have to mention that Kate has amazing skin, and I don't know if you want to reveal your age.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:21:36 But oh, I am 57.

Kay Miller 00:21:39 Okay, there you go. 57. Practically a senior citizen. You can probably.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:21:44 Skip that now.

Kay Miller 00:21:47 But you can get into the movie with a discount. You can go to Fred Meyer and get a senior discount.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:21:52 Just how old they need to be for.

Kay Miller 00:21:54 That. It's only 55.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:21:56 Oh, so I'm already there. Oh.

Kay Miller 00:21:58 The movie might be on.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:21:59 I had a 22 year old say to me today, you're only as old as you feel. And I'm like, that's chronologically untrue, but thanks. Like, I feel great. Excellent.

Kay Miller 00:22:10 And when you talked about yourself getting Botox, I remember you said, I don't want my kids to feel like I'm frowning at them all the time.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:22:18 Thankfully, I am over that phase. They're older now, and my daughter's just turned 20 and my son's 18. Now there's a lot less of that furrowed brow situation happening with them.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:22:28 But yeah, once you realize how easy Botox and Dysport are, there's several other toxins as well in the US. But and what it does and it really is very safe. Like it's hard to once you do it, it's like hard to find fault in. And it feels so good to not have those. And it's also relaxing in a way like if you can't make the frowny face, you don't feel so frowny. And it's really weird that way. And also headaches tend to go away as well. So I never thought I'd be a big consumer of it before I got into this business. But I have to say, I love my dysport. The other thing I swear by are the skincare thing. So if you have great skin, you don't need makeup. You don't. I mean, I have no makeup on at all. Zero. Okay, I don't know how many listeners you have that actually see the video, but but if you have great skin, you just feel great in your skin.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:23:23 It's like having great clothes, like you just feel great and you don't need to cover it up. And I feel very strongly that's my that's my focus. That's what we do. We just we help people have really great skin.

Kay Miller 00:23:34 And that is important. This reminds me of studies about kids in school. And I think this happened starting years ago, that when kids wore nicer clothes or were more Groomed that they did better in school. It really affects your self-esteem, how you see yourself, how you feel.

Kay Miller 00:23:51 Yeah, and I think acne, especially for kids, acne as well. So like we actually spend a lot of time doing acne consults for teenagers, mostly the kids of the moms who come into the spa. But it really it really works if you get them on board with actually taking care of their skin.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:24:07 I know that we're going to link to your podcast where you talk more about this. I do want to get into your business story, but let's talk about that because you were a doctor who was doing mammograms and you had this passion.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:24:21 How did that happen? And as listeners are thinking about, hey, I'd like to start a business because I have this passion like you do or a purpose or an interest. So what was involved? How did you decide and what advice would you give to other women who are starting a business?

Kay Miller 00:24:39 Yeah, it started with a suggestion from friends. So I was in my old practice working in a breast center. Yes, I read mammograms, ultrasounds, and MRIs. I did a lot of procedures like breast biopsies and wire localizations and. And I diagnosed breast cancer. I had two friends who were OB GYNs, who had done aesthetics for many years in their practice, and they encouraged me to look into it, and I followed them around for a day and their office, and it was just awesome. It was all doing needle procedures and talking to women all day. But you made them happy. Everybody was happy. They were happy when they came in. They were happy when they left and it just was a fun interaction.

Kay Miller 00:25:21 I thought, this is totally different, right? I can use my same skills for something way more fun. And I just thought, let me look into it and find a good class and if I like it, I'll do more. And if I don't like it, oh, at least I got some CME and I'll move on. But the very first day of the first course I took was all on laser physics, and I was in heaven because I'm radiologists or physics geeks and I just. I loved it, and I was never a beauty consumer, but I was like, if I understand physics and I can use physics to make my skin look good, awesome, right? So anyway, one thing led to another, and I actually tried to present a business plan to my partners in my old radiology group, and they laughed at me. And, and I just literally turned around the next day and found a space in my neighborhood where I live to open a spa, and I got my own malpractice insurance, and I just was like, to heck with you guys, and I'm out.

Kay Miller 00:26:18 I didn't quit right away, but and I did not give the thought that now am I going to give you the advice that you're asking for? I did not put a lot of thought into the things that I really should have before doing that. One of the things I was very lucky in finding out that it was in very high demand, those skills were in very high demand and those procedures are profitable. Okay. I could do inject Botox in somebody. Now, Botox actually is not a hugely profitable thing compared to some other things in the industry. But the bottom line is, anything that you're passionate about, it's one thing to have passion, but it's another thing to know that you can monetize that passion and you have to have a plan for that before you can open your doors or start your website and start taking clients and being open for business, because it might be that you're offering something that no one's going to want to buy. Okay. So you need to figure out how to package it and how to deliver it in a way that people want to consume what you're creating.

Kay Miller 00:27:24 And so just because, oh, I've got content, I'm going to put it on a website or something doesn't mean people are going to buy that. And so you have to know what actually makes money and what doesn't. Like for instance, this podcast. Okay, I have a podcast as well in order for the podcast to make money itself. Like to sell ads or something, you have to have a certain minimum number of downloads and I'm nowhere close to that. I don't know where you are with it, but it is very hard.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:27:54 It's big. They're big numbers, big numbers.

Kay Miller 00:27:56 It's very hard to get that kind of audience unless you're famous in some way. So I'll give you the example of Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach have their podcast. We can Do Hard things. I love them, I listen to them. Are they they interview really interesting people. Why? Because they're famous and they they can have Michelle Obama on their podcast and everybody wants to listen to them. But for me, I know that there are millions of people in the country who are consumers of the stuff that I provide, and I know that there are millions of people who would be interested in hearing about these things because they wanted to lose weight, or they thought about Botox and they're not sure, and they have questions, but like how to go viral and how to get out to those people.

Kay Miller 00:28:41 That's really hard. So you have to look at what is the thing that I do really well and I'm passionate about, and how do I package that in a way that people want to pay money for it and then market it. But a lot of people I've seen in my industry go straight to marketing as though they had something that people want to buy already. And the thing is that, like a lot of people just don't yet they don't know. I knew many years ago when I first started, there was another doctor that I met who was passionate about health coaching, and and I talked to her about the things she liked to talk about, and those are things I was really interested in, too. But I was like, are people going to pay you money for that? Like, how are you going to package something that someone wants to buy? And it's been a while since then, and I know that that particular idea didn't go anywhere. And it doesn't mean that all health coaching is not marketable or consumable.

Kay Miller 00:29:42 And next time, what we call a remembered need. Because, yeah, I just worked with a client. They picked a whole. We call the we call your target market your moose. And they picked a moose. And it was actually a water utility industry in the regional area. And they knew it. They do cybersecurity. So they knew this is a huge risk and problem. Someone a terrorist, could come in and taint the water supply. But the water utility people, a lot of them are older and ready to retire head in the sand. So they switched to a whole different moose, which happened to be lawyers. And it's really.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:30:22 That's way better because all lawyers are busy preparing for like the worst case scenario. That makes sense to switch your moose right there. Yeah.

Kay Miller 00:30:31 And so the acknowledged need. And you're right, people do start their business with a passion. You maybe didn't think it through, but once you did, you were determined.

Kay Miller 00:30:40 And that's one thing about you I've known since I've met you. You got the book done. Now you're talking about a nonprofit. You built your spa from 1 to 2 locations. So you are someone that is determined and gets the whole marketing thing. So it has worked out. And of course, you're not done, but you are doing well. And also we're just going to close out here, but you do a ton of travel with your kids. You said you're taking your son to Belize for his high school graduation. Lucky kid.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:31:11 All right. Yes. I feel very lucky too, because, you know, he picked Belize, so that's awesome.

Kay Miller 00:31:16 But yeah, that's really good. Yeah. So this has afforded a very nice lifestyle for you. But I also know that you work hard and that's one thing that you just can't replace a good work ethic.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:31:26 And that's the other thing is especially in what I do, a lot of doctors think, oh, this will be an easy side gig.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:31:34 And it is not. This was so much harder than what I used to do, not mentally and emotionally, but 24 over seven I started. I was just by myself. I worked 24 over seven. There was never a moment. And then I was also doctor, receptionist, IT expert, marketer. I did everything and it's it's grueling and crazy because it's every possible imaginable thing you be owning a small business is like, you never know what the next crazy thing is you have to deal with. So it was really hard, especially in the first few years.

Kay Miller 00:32:11 Yes, I agree, and as we close out, I'm sure you get this to people say, I wish I had my own business and people don't think that through. We. I used to joke that when you call in, if you want sales, press one. If you want marketing, press one. If you want janitorial one. Because again.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:32:30 That was all me as well, I think. Yeah. You know what people used to say that they still.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:32:35 I just hear that still about twins. Oh, I always wanted twins. I'm like, you know what? I was on bed rest for 18 weeks. That's a long time. It's very high risk. It's really. I could have lost them so many times. And so people say, oh, I wish I had that. But the reality of it doesn't really match their sort of fantasy of what they think it might be.

Kay Miller 00:32:55 And then you've got two kids and diapers for a long time, but and now you've got two kids. That's one school. You got a third one.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:33:02 Less than two years later.

Kay Miller 00:33:04 Oh, boy. So you are certifiable. Certifiably crazy.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:33:08 Oh.

Kay Miller 00:33:08 Thank you.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:33:09 No. Okay, well.

Kay Miller 00:33:10 But it all turned out well. You've got great kids. And so it's been fun to to hear about their journeys, too. Kate, I'm going to close out here. And again, I will put links to all of the resources, including your podcast and maybe 1 or 2 specific episodes that people can listen to.

Kay Miller 00:33:29 Link to your book on Amazon Med Spa mayhem. I heard that was your second choice for title, but I love it. I love it.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:33:38 It worked out.

Kay Miller 00:33:39 It worked out. I really appreciate your time. It's fun seeing you again after a couple of years since skiing.

Dr. Kate Dee 00:33:46 It's so great to talk with you. Thanks for having me on.

Kay Miller 00:33:53 Thanks for listening to this episode. And by the way, I invite you to join my Facebook group. Uncopyable Women in Business. The next time. And always remember to be able.