Episode 177 | Podcast Guesting: Your Hidden Marketing Goldmine with Jessica Rhodes

What if one conversation could spark months of marketing momentum—and cost far less than ads or endless content creation?

In this episode of Uncopyable Women in Business, Jessica Rhodes, founder of Interview Connections and pioneer of the podcast guesting industry, reveals a marketing tactic most entrepreneurs still overlook: turning podcast interviews into a powerful business-growth engine.

Jessica breaks down how a single guest appearance can build instant trust with new audiences, supercharge your SEO, and give you weeks of ready-made social media clips—all while positioning you as the go-to expert in your field. She shares the steps to land on the right shows, craft a call-to-action that converts listeners into clients, and repurpose every interview into a steady stream of content.

Listen in and you’ll walk away ready to pitch your first podcasts, capture new leads from every appearance, and transform long-form conversations into the most cost-effective marketing your business has ever tried.

About Jessica Rhodes:

Jessica Rhodes is a trailblazer in podcasting and the founder of Interview Connections, the first-ever podcast booking agency. In 2013, while pregnant with her first child and eager to work from home, Jessica began booking podcast interviews for her father, eventually turning that work into a thriving business. Today, Interview Connections has booked more than 30,000 interviews for over 800 clients, helping entrepreneurs elevate their visibility and authority. 

Resources:

Website: Interview Connections

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Check out Kay's Uncopyable Sales Secrets Video Series: https://www.beuncopyable.com/sales-course

Want to be more successful, make more sales and grow your business? If so, you'll love this podcast. In this show, I (Kay Miller, aka "Muffler Mama," interview superstar business women from all industries. Their experience and advice will give you specific tools you can use to crush your goals like those grapes in my favorite "I love Lucy" episode. I earned the nickname “Muffler Mama" when sold more automotive mufflers than anyone in the world. Besides being a #1 Salesperson, I've been a successful entrepreneur for over 30 years. During that time, I (along with my husband, Steve) have generated 8 figures in revenue for our business. Besides hosting this podcast, I'm an author, speaker, coach, consultant and most importantly....Kelly's mom.

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Transcript

I'm here with Jessica Rhodes, and Jessica is a pioneer in the podcasting field.

She founded Interview Connections, the very first podcast booking agency in 2013, back when no one else was doing it. Since then, her company has booked more than 30,000 podcast interviews for over 800 clients, and she helps entrepreneurs go from being the best kept secret to building businesses that generate millions in sales, sell thousands of books and transform lives.

Jessica, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. Kay. This has been fun chatting and getting to know you a little bit before we, uh, started recording I know that you started this business. We talked about the podcasting journey. Maybe you can kind of go through that when podcast really hit the big time, but you started this working with your dad.

So can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, absolutely. So when I was pregnant with my first child, it was late 2012. I had that switch that flips for a lot of parents where I was like. I don't wanna do what I'm doing. I was doing door to door work for a nonprofit, and I know I wanna be a stay at home mom when the baby comes, but then I didn't know what I would do.

So I asked my parents for advice and my dad said, you should start a virtual assistant business. You can work online. You can work from home, and I'll be your first client. And so my dad became my first client, which basically meant he was my boss at home because I was. He was my only client and I was working in his business and I learned the ropes.

I learned about online entrepreneurship, I learned about marketing. He took me to conferences. Like I saw the whole Dan Kennedy, GKIC world. I met a lot of, you know, made a lot of great connections through my dad's online world and his entrepreneurship community. And a few months into working with my dad and doing client support and administrative work for him, he asked me to start booking him on podcasts and getting people booked on his podcast as a guest.

He goes, I think this will be perfect 'cause it's a very transferrable skill from door to door work. Instead of knocking on doors, you're sending out email pitches and making suggestions and asking for something. And so I started booking my dad on podcasts. It was going really, really well. And so at that point I was doing podcast booking and I was still doing the other things.

I was doing sales for him, client support, admin. I'm like, dad, I wanna be able to make more money and there's only so much money I can make if I'm billing you $15 an hour. Gotta raise your rates, dad. So he, he is like, okay. So, um, I'm like, I hear from all your mastermind clients that I need packages. That's the key to be able, able to scale and be more profitable.

And so he asked me a few questions to help me figure out what I wanted to actually make a business around, not just like VA services. And through those questions like what do I enjoy the most? What's in most demand? Where do people get the most value? It all pointed to this work of booking podcast interviews.

And so interview connections.com was created and over the summer of 2013, he helped me make a website for it, create packages and pricing. And then it officially went live in the fall, and that's when I launched my agency. That's a great story and uh, I don't wanna gloss over the fact that you did door to door sales and it was a little different.

You said it was fundraising, but door to door, that's cold calling. That's every sales person's biggest fear is to knock on those doors. So kudos to you. How, how was that for you? Were you pretty, uh, comfortable with that or was it scary and you had to get over it? Just curious. I loved it. I loved it. Yes. I, I used, I got into that when I was a freshman in college and I saw a flyer on campus.

I went to Temple University and there was a flyer that said I could make $10 an hour saving the environment. And I was like, sign me up. 'cause I'm currently making $6 an hour at work study. I loved it. And it was crazy because the first time I did door to door, that first like second interview, I wasn't even getting paid.

It was like a second interview. They needed to like see if you had the chops. I was going door to door in the projects in South Philadelphia and I was like, whatever you can give. And people were giving me literally the change out of their pockets and I'm like, this is so fun. I'm just talking to people.

So I've canvased anywhere from the projects of South Philadelphia to multimillion dollar mansions in Austin, Texas. And I just love it because I learned that people for the most part are really kind, you know, I get a few of the people in a bad mood, but people are pretty much happy to talk to you. And I think in that environment, maybe they're more.

Happy to talk to you, or they're not, they don't have their guards up. Plus, you know, you're very charming, great personality. But of course when you're calling on a business, sometimes it's more scary. However, I also like cold calling my husband Steve Miller. He's Steve Miller. We have to talk about your dad and, and my husband.

But he said, you're a very sick person. But of course in when you're calling on businesses, you kind of expect that they're gonna say no or they're gonna close the door or whatever. So it's so exciting when you get that interaction going. And as you said, people are, people are kind and people are people, right.

It's everything's people. But so I'm, I think that's very interesting and two people listening. Cold calling is just, that so there's a, there's an upside to it too. You get to know people you would never, ever have gotten to know otherwise. Right. I mean, you said you did travel, like you were a traveling salesperson.

I, I was sent to different cities, to dc, Virginia, Pittsburgh, Austin. Like, I went all over and I got to, how often do you get to go somewhere and actually just like meet the people, the individuals living there? It was just such a great experience. So I, I'm nostalgic for those days, but you know, pay is not quite high enough to support a family.

Well, that's, that's a great backstory that can serve you in so many arenas of your life. I love the fact that you said you asked your parents for advice as the mother of a 33-year-old. I know you're around that age. Yeah. Good for you for asking and actually listening. To your parents, and yes. Your dad is in the, you said he was known as the newsletter guru Dan Kennedy fan.

And of course, as I said, Steve, my husband has been very involved with Dan Kennedy through the years I have, we have all his books. Steve's been to conferences. Spoken to conferences, uh, so that's fun. A fun shared background there. Yeah. And now, and then he's into coaching or he's. Semi-retired. Mostly retired, yeah.

But dream business coach. Yes. And of course that's our world too. Coaching and consulting, helping people be more successful. So that's always fun too. That's really great. Yeah. We were talking a little bit about the podcasting world. It seems like podcasts have been around forever, but they started out as something very different than what they've become.

And that's what gave you the opportunity to be the first booking agency, official booking agency. And I have to say, when I heard that, I, I had to look that up. So I had some, uh, conversations with AI and yeah, the podcasting world has really morphed from the beginning to the point where it became an opportunity for marketing yourself.

So can you talk about that a little bit? Absolutely. You know, in 20 12, 20 13, there were something like 200,000 podcasts in the world. Now. Probably three to 4 million. And at that time, podcasts were so small they were also kind of interchangeable with internet radio. I don't know if you remember Blog Talk radio, but a lot of people were doing Yes, I do.

Yeah, I do remember that for so long. My dad was, because he started his podcast in 2012. I think he was recording it over Instant Teleseminar, which I don't know, pe like, you know, that I don't remember. Like, it's just you, you just call in and it's like the quality has gotten so much higher now as there's been this huge growth of this industry.

There's all these different amazing softwares. Even Zoom, Riverside, like there's all these different ways to have a really professionally sounding podcast, but back then it was just of conference call line and recording the audio. It was hardly any video. Most podcasters at that time weren't doing video because what was there was Skype, but it just wasn't what was happening then.

And so it was this very, very small platform. And because it was so small, PR agencies were not booking on podcasts. Like, I remember I had a client and his wife was very well known in her space. She would be regularly going to the Today Show to be like their featured expert in her niche. And so she had like a lot of pr and I was working with her husband, who's more of like the online entrepreneur, and he's like, yeah, my wife won't do podcasts.

Like she wouldn't. And now she has a podcast, you know? My hell times have changed. But you know, back then podcasts were not a reputable medium for so many people. But the reason that the entrepreneur, like my dad and the entrepreneurs that I was working with saw the opportunity is 'cause they saw it as a networking opportunity.

It was a way for them to have a one-on-one conversation like we're having right now. And then also have their audience listen so they could have a hundred people listening to them have this conversation and they could see how valuable that was. And then people started to pick up. And that's what really grew the industry is 'cause entrepreneurs started to take the hint that, oh, to grow a business, I need people to get to know me in an authentic way, to be able to hear me speak long form.

And I kind of don't wanna have to travel all over the country to conferences constantly to be able to have those conversations. And that's, that's I think why so many people are using podcasts. It is, it's a great way to leverage your type and, and energy to be visible. And as I said, I've just been so blessed to have an incredible list of women I've interviewed in the last two years.

And yes, and now they're in my network. And I, I love your point. I guess I hadn't just really verbalized the fact that yes, I'm sitting down and talking with someone, often one of somebody I really admire for 30 minutes, just one-on-one. So that's a great network builder. One of the things I notice is that.

There are so many podcasts that don't last very long, and my podcast now is two years old. UNC Copyable, women in Business, which started outta sales. So that's a real badge of honor. It's hard to keep that going. And one of the things that makes it hard is getting guests, which of course is why you're here to talk about not just getting guests, but getting quality guests.

That will be guests that your listeners wanna hear, and also that you really are motivated, you want to have in your network. So that's where you come in. So let's talk about why is it important to have you help? Guess find the right, podcast, which I know is your main focus. But then also it works the other way around.

Someone like me, I want really good guests too. So when you're pitching someone to me, then that helps me vet who I'm, I'm gonna invite on the show. So there you go. Well, your turn. Okay. Amazing. Yeah it's, so, I mean, first of all, it is a huge badge of honor and a huge accomplishment to be podcasting as long as you have been.

I think some 90% of people who started podcasts don't even last 20 episodes, let alone two years. Because it is a lot of work to have a show, to have the energy to put into it, to have the strategy of thinking like, what types of guests do I want? What do I wanna interview them about guiding the interview.

It's a lot of work and all so to match up the right guests with the right. Host, because this kind of goes both ways, right? As a guest, when you're going and getting yourself some, getting yourself on podcasts and being interviewed, you have to go on shows that are in alignment. Not only podcasts that have your target audience listening, but a podcast that is a good fit for you.

Where you and the host have some things in common. There's some things that you can relate on. Personalities mesh well, you know, that's really important too. Like I don't do, I'm from the northeast, I talk quickly and I don't do well with like slow, like mushy, kind of like feel touchy feely vibe.

Like that's not, that's not me. So my team knows not only the type of podcast I like to be on, but the type of host I like to connect with. So really knowing that is gonna help make sure that when you're. Pitching yourself to podcasts, the hosts that you're pitching are also seeing the alignment and the possibility.

And it's not just this spray and pray approach because that's what happening. That's what's happening so much, is people are just blasting out a pitch to every show. And you can tell they're just kind of auto-filling the hosts name. Like, I gotta pitch this morning, dear Jessica Rhodes, in what world do you address an email with the person's first and last name?

It doesn't happen. So I know it's like an templated mass approach and that doesn't work. And as a host to have the longevity, you have to be booking people to interview that you actually wanna talk to because nothing is gonna burn you out faster than having to sit through an interview with somebody that you don't actually have any interest in talking to, and that you're like, oh God, you couldn't pay me enough to do this.

You know? So that alignment, both with personality topic, it all has to be there. If as a guest and a host, you're gonna have longevity. Well, I love that you feel like we're a match because I really enjoy my interviews, but I have to say some are more difficult than others. They're all great, but you know, you're very easy to talk to and that's important.

I've gotten way better at interviewing since I started. In fact, it's always humbling to go and listen to those first episodes. But yeah, the spray and pray approach, which is. Of course not the way that I recommend selling, and you either it, it's just, it's a waste of time. It, it, it annoys people and it's not really the best way to get that synchronicity that you're talking about.

As I mentioned, now, I'm getting a lot of applicants for the show because I've been on for two years. I've had these great guests, I've got a great audience, and I say no to a lot of guests. So that's a privilege that I've earned. Okay. I have earned that. And but with the right conversations, I, I just love it.

I love learning about new people like you and, and, you know, helping you and you help me. Hey, it's great, right? Yes. Win-win. Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about, of course it might be obvious, but what are the advantages to being on a podcast that you can't get anywhere else? So, number one, it's the only place where you can actually generate content, thought leadership content, where you're able to respond to questions.

I think some 80% of the population are responders, which means they, the content they create is best when they're answering a question. And a lot of people have trouble if they're like, oh, if they're told to just make videos for social media write a post, they're, there's this stop. What should I talk about?

What would, what would people wanna hear about? But when you're interviewed and somebody's asking you a question, there's no resistance to answering the question because you know that they wanna hear the answer. There's not like, oh, should I, should I talk about the importance of podcasts and how it got started?

Who's gonna care? But I'm gonna answer at with full enthusiasm, because you wouldn't ask me if you didn't care, or you didn't think your audience cared. And so when you have this great content of you responding to questions, you can take the clips, like you can use a tool called Opus Pro, which is an AI tool.

You grab the video interview from YouTube, you put it into Opus, and now you have 30 different clips that are 30 seconds to two minutes long. You post those up on LinkedIn, on Instagram, Facebook, and then say, you know, if they like this clip, they can go listen to the full episode. So it fuels your social media with great content that has you speaking.

And the energy of me speaking with you, responding to questions is so much different than if I just. Put up my phone and just start talking. Like I have a very, my energy's just lower if I'm just talking into a camera versus being live with you on an interview. So that's one of the biggest benefits.

Search engine optimization is another huge benefit that I don't think people think about enough. Every time you're on a podcast, for the most part, the host is gonna put a link to your website and the episode description, they're gonna put that interview on YouTube that has your name, your probably your website in the description of the YouTube.

So when people Google you or Ask Chat GPT, is this Jessica Rhodes person, legit, she looks too young to have started the first agency. You know who's my whole chat? GPT, uh, re run down on you chat. GBT is like, yep, people I've been linking to her website for 12 years. Like it's all of those backlinks is what shows people through their internet and AI searches who you are.

So it builds your footprint online. And then of course, the visibility to other people's audiences. Most of us are doing a pretty good job marketing to our own audience. We'll email our list, we'll post on our social media, but to grow that audience, we need to go outside and be in front of other people's audiences and podcasts are the best way to do that without having to leave your home.

And then lastly, networking. Networking with the podcast host. If you want people to refer business to you directly, you have to have a good relationship with them. And you have to be somebody that people know and remember and host. Remember their guests more than somebody that they see posts on LinkedIn every so often.

I have to reach back just as, as an aside, hopefully that didn't come through with the sound, but here's, uh, the latest book that Steve and I wrote Uncapable You, and it's about how to get people to know, like, trust and remember you. So I had to bring that up because that is pretty much the secret sauce of this book.

They probably know people that are in a position to buy or do whatever you want them to do. They know other people, they probably like other people. They trust them. But if those people leave and aren't on your mind, they won't remember you. So I, I love the fact that you said remember so critical. I have to, uh, I was taking notes.

If you're watching online, you probably saw me taking notes. Your point about energy. Oh my gosh, I told you I'm recording a course right now and. It's so hard to get the energy that I'm having right now just naturally flows. And so, that's why I really prefer live programs. I could, of course, still do them online, but if there's nobody listening, it's just a totally different thing.

For people that wanna be on podcasts, who are going to be on podcasts. I'm sure you recommend and you coach them on, you have to have these talking points, all these things in your mind that could come up because I, I suppose some podcasts, they ask you these questions, but for mine, anything could come up.

So you've gotta be kind of, have those things in your mind and be able to think on your feet. Uh, we do have Opus Pro and what's great, one thing about Opus is that they, it actually picks the clips for you and rates them by the best clip performing clip. So there's, there are a lot of tools, but you've brought up really great points about the kind of exposure that you just, you can't pay for anywhere else.

And of course if you're, you know, you need to hire Jessica because you wanna be on the right podcast. And that will give you the kind of visibility and all the things that she mentioned that we really can't get other. Any place else, and you can of course read what somebody wrote, but you feel like you know them so much better when you see them talking or hear them talking.

I do post these interviews, my assistant does on YouTube, so check all the things that you talked about. Love it. So true. Yeah, and I'll just add that this is such a good sales resource. I regularly will send podcast appearances that I've done as a guest to like just this past Monday I had an interview go live.

I emailed it to my entire list because I know that if people who are on my email list who maybe saw my ad and opted in are getting my emails, if they go listen to me, get interviewed on somebody else's podcast, I am now elevated to authority status versus somebody that has a lead magnet that got, you know what I mean?

It's a different. Positioning running an ad, selling something versus I'm an authority and people are interviewing me because they wanna hear what I have to say. So use your podcast with your list. Exactly. Use your podcast with your list. And I don't know if I said this while we're recording, but yes, I'm getting very picky about my guests.

So you listening to this, if Jessica sent it to you, please know that she made the grade, which is not easy to do. I feel so honored. So what else can you tell me? And I guess I will look at your questions. Let's talk about one thing you said that intrigued me. What is the biggest pitfall coaches make in their marketing efforts that causes them to lose sales?

I mean, it's, it's kind of obvious at this point, but it they're not creating long form content. I can't believe how many coaches are marketing coaching online, and there's nowhere for me to hear them speak. I am not gonna hire a coach if I am not able to first hear them speak before booking a sales consultation.

I won't book a sales call with a service provider, a coach, a vendor, anyone if I'm not able to first hear them speak. Sometimes there will be an Instagram reel where I can hear them speak for 30 seconds. I wanna be able to do a deep dive. That is what buyers are. That is how buyers are behaving right now.

They are binging your content before ever opting in, and if you have no content for them to binge. You are losing people before they even touch your website. And that's why, like, going back to the responder conversation, so many coaches are responders because a great coach is not just showing up and telling their client what to do, but they're asking the right questions.

They're responding to their client's questions. And if you don't have any content for your audience, your future perspective clients to listen to, how could they possibly know if you're somebody that they would want to follow? So they're not creating long form content. That's a, that's, they're losing so much potential business because they're not doing that.

That's an excellent point. And, and yes, so this podcast world that has happened is giving us these opportunities and, and my husband, he's mostly retired now, but I shouldn't say mostly retired. He'll probably get mad at me for, he, he still does work and he loves to do his work. But he for years was a major speaker at events and was a member of National Speakers Association and they had to have all these speaker reels and have a fantastic website that had all these videos and, and, you know, showcase them.

And now as you're, you're talking about this can all happen through podcasts, which even when you're paying someone like you to get you on podcasts, it's a lot less money than, than they'd be paying if they had to hire somebody to do video and audio content for them. 100%. I remember that just gave me a flashback like 10 years ago when I was pretty new working with my dad.

You know, he would advise people to like, you know, if you wanna make a speaker reel, book a conference room at a hotel and just film yourself speaking. Pretend that there's an audience there. Well, you don't have to pretend anymore. Just go get interviewed on podcasts and film yourself speaking. I always teach people too, one hack to get more video content.

I don't, I'm not doing it right now, but like, you could set up your phone on a tripod and just film yourself in your room speaking into a, um, you know, into a podcast. So there's so many different ways to get content of you speaking when you use podcasts as the platform. Well, that's very interesting.

So you're videoing yourself being interviewed because of course, I've got this interview and it will be on YouTube, so you could download the interview or share it however you want. Mm-hmm. But you're saying add that extra layer of credibility as if someone's filming you. Hey, that's, that's a great tidbit.

Now, now I wanna ask, do you have any others? Okay. And I'm putting you on the spot, so I know. Well, and just to give a little bit more context so we have a client who is a cosmetic dentist, and she primarily does podcast guesting for this content, and so she has this beautiful office in Manhattan and you know, this microphone and the couch.

And so her team films, her and the laptop where the host is, you know, we're interviewing her is just out of frame. And so it looks like she's in some beautiful studio. She's doing a podcast on Zoom, but she's, but her team films her, and then she uses that on social media. They actually have music. It's a whole like basically B-roll video with text over it, but it's her speaking into a microphone.

So it's great content. Really good positioning. So, um, I love that because you get the video interview that's like recorded on Zoom here and on YouTube, but it's also just a different point of view to. Film yourself with an actual, you know, camera. So I love that too. That's a great idea. And we already talked about the energy thing.

You know, I, when I'm filming something, when I'm recording myself doing a program, I'll play a podcast interview and I'll say, okay, Kay, there's your energy. This is who you are. And it's just a really big job to match that energy. So I love the what comes out of these conversations. So let's talk about someone listening who's all in.

They're like, yes, I want this. So how do they go about being a, a good guest? Uh, is the first thing they do just reach out to you and you'll talk to them and coach them? Or what is the next step for someone listening that says, man, this is gonna be my jam. Yes, I know if you hear this and you're like, this is it for me, I need to do this.

Of course you can come to us and book a call, interview connections.com/consult if you'd like to speak with me. Uh, but in terms of how to be a great guest, I wanna give some tips there. It's just, first of all, be yourself and amplify your energy a bit, right? If we were just, if we weren't recording, like we would probably be a little bit calmer, but at the same time, you want it to be entertaining and engaging for people that are listening on, you know, apple Podcasts, like going for a walk or something like that.

Before. So now that's a little tip for being on the interview. Be energized, be excited, be easy to talk, to. Listen really well. Let the host speak and then also have a period at the end of your sentences. Some people kind of trail off and ramble on, you know, they're like, when I stop talking, say your sentences and end it powerfully before the interview.

Listen to the host podcast. I listened to your last two episodes, so I kind of got a sense of your style. You have some different formats, and so listen to the Host podcast, look them up online. So I could come into this knowing that you're a sales expert, you're an author, you did, you know the, what is it?

The muffler queen, so I love their mama. I love it. So get to know the host so you don't come in blind, because if you come in blind not knowing who they are, what they do, what the style of their show is, it just starts things off on a really awkward foot. And the energy of the show will not be as good as if you can come in already having some points of connection.

And then lastly, big tip for guests have a call to action. Where are you gonna send the listeners? I get we get Ries every single day from people who wanna be on podcasts. And we always ask, what website do you wanna promote? And they're like, I don't have one. And I'm like where? What why do you wanna pay me to book you if you have nowhere to send the people who hear you on a podcast?

So you do need to have a home base on the web, whether it's a website or maybe it's a LinkedIn, probably should have a website to build an email list. But have a place where people can go after they hear you on the podcast so that you can convert their emails and names and phone numbers and, you know, have them on your list.

Excellent points. And as a host too, I, I don't have it anymore because I don't think that I need it as much, but I had a big. Wait a minute, I still do have it. It's just, you know what, it blends into the scenery, energy, exclamation point, smile quest, ex exclamation point, eye contact to the end. And that's one thing I noticed that at the end of the episode, I'd kind of be trailing, you know, trailing off a little bit and it really does.

Take a focus to, to, you know, the, the effort to focus. And I agree, you, you really need to have a higher level of energy. When we stop recording, we'll talk a little bit and it will, it'll be a different tone. Mm-hmm. But this is more interesting to listen to and you can tell what we're excited about. So those are great tips.

I love them. Yes. Well, we made it to the end. I also love the fact, by the way, I'm just gonna say this. If you're ever a guest, especially on my show, I don't care about the others. Yes, I do. It really does make it hard when there aren't those clear pauses. That's an excellent thing. I think I should even actually put that in my.

My guest instructions because it's really bad when you talk over the other person and you know, when I'm trying to find the break. So you did an excellent job. You are really an excellent guest, so I'm glad you didn't come on and be a real dud. That would be very embarrassing for me, considering my line of work.

No, well, you were anything but just a delight to talk to. The links will be in the show notes for Jessica's call to action, which will be to go to her website and all over the website you'll see book a call, find out is this something that you can use to advance your career. And Jessica can coach you like she's talking about on the best ways to do that.

So on that note, I just wanna end by saying I appreciate you so much. Thanks for being on the show. Thank you, Kay.

Okay. That's funny.