Episode 195 | Scale Your Business Without Losing Your Soul with Shannon Plumb

In this conversation, Shannon shares how her early identity as a dancer influenced her resilience, how retail work sharpened her ability to understand buyers, and how bold career moves taught her to trust her instincts. She discusses the difference between leaders who “do the work” and those who empower others, why personal branding is no longer optional, and how authenticity has become a true competitive advantage in a world where AI makes everything feel increasingly polished and impersonal.

Today, Shannon helps executives reclaim their voice, align their values with their work, and lead without sacrificing who they are. She also reveals her PROVEN framework—a practical way to assess whether a situation aligns with your goals, boundaries, and well-being.

About Shannon Plumb:

Shannon Plumb is the CEO of Purl Advisors and leads the Authentic Leader Revolution, helping growth-stage leaders scale sustainably without losing their soul. Over 20+ years, she has driven over $100M in revenue growth across multiple successful acquisitions, transforming organizations from startup to enterprise scale through relationship-driven leadership approaches. Her unique journey from professional ballerina to Fortune 500 Enterprise Sales Executive to Chief Revenue Officer gives her unparalleled insight into how authentic presence translates into business results. Shannon specializes in helping leaders stop following someone else's playbook and start writing their own, turning their natural strengths into their competitive advantage.

Reach Shannon:

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Website

Check out Kay's Uncopyable Sales Secrets Video Series: https://www.beuncopyable.com/sales-course

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Transcript

I'm excited about my guest today, Shannon Plum, CEO of Pearl Advisors and founder of the Authentic Leader Revolution. She has a very unique journey. She started as a professional ballerina. And then move to a Fortune 500 enterprise sales executive, and now is the CEO of her own company. Pearl Advisors.

Shannon helps grow stage leaders, growth stage leaders, scale their businesses without losing their soul, using authenticity as a real competitive advantage. Shannon, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I'm so excited  to be here today. This is gonna be a fun conversation and I do wanna talk a little bit about your journey.

Uh, of course, being a ballerina is very unique. I told you I happen to have a friend who is a ballerina, but then your career path took some interesting turns. So why don't you give us a little background on your journey.

Absolutely. So I started at a young age dancing and fell in love with it and really became all consumed by everything ballet.

If you knew me when I was younger, everyone knew me as the ballet dancer. It was my identity so closely tied to that. I broke my foot. And ended up having to sit out and watch for a full year as that mended. Um, and like so many things in life, when you get perspective and see the other side of the coin, you go, oh, I've missed out on all of this.

So I decided that to end my ballet career, it was a really tough decision being that my identity was so closely tied to it, but I had a real conundrum of, okay, this is who I am, this is what I do, this is how everyone knows me. Who am I now? What am I doing now? And so from that did some exploration as we all do in college, and switched my majors like three or four times in college.

Still really didn't know what I wanted to do. Okay. I ended up graduating without a job. And just before I was set to, to walk graduation, I went to a career fair. Union Net Technologies, which was part of WorldCom at the time. So Fortune Two Company, um, was recruiting for AEs and I thought, huh, I majored in design.

I have a background in dance. Why can't I sell? Everyone can sell, right? So I walked up to the, uh, the specialist and convinced them that because I. Could tell people what their environment should be like and what space they should live in or work in that I was good at selling my ideas and therefore that would easily translate into sales.

Of course I didn't know anything at the time, but for some reason they took a chance on me and, uh, that's how I got into my early sales career. And that was such a fortuitous event because they, being such a large organization had so many resources dedicated to helping. People learn the art and the science of sales.

And they put me through a year study program essentially, where I traveled from city to city for one week, a month for an entire year, and deep dove into a concept in sales. So one week could be negotiations. The next week could be what's your elevator pitch and how do you succinctly describe what you do with value?

And for that entire year, I got my sales education. That was really the basis for the rest of my career in sales thus far. It was a very interesting experience.

It sounds fascinating. I like your comment that you say everything is sales. Because I work with a lot of small business owners and they don't wanna sell.

They don't wanna market, and they especially don't wanna sell. And when I ask. Who sells for your company then? Well, nobody. So the owner does sell and it's, it could be a really great experience. And you sold yourself to this company, you said you persuaded them. So what do you think it was about you that, uh, won them over?

Was it your passion? Was it your commitment, your unique background? What would you say helped persuade them?

Thinking back, I think there's probably a few things. I don't know how much hiring you've done for sales, but I'm assuming probably quite a bit in your career. And as a sales leader, what I always looked for were athletes.

People who I knew were dedicated and understood what discipline was, how to do things over and over day after day and get better at them, who were okay with monotony, who had that perseverance. And I think ballet definitely. Played into all of those buckets. So I think they saw that. I also have been told throughout my life that I am very passionate.

It's definitely one of the values that I think people get in talking with me. That can be good and that can be bad to some people. It's too much to others, it's not enough. But I do think that that came through and that they saw someone who was confident and believed and really curious, just like open to learning.

I didn't walk in and say I know everything. I walked in and said, Hey, I think I could be good at this. Here's my background and here's why. I'm totally open to learning and to growing, and I think that was really attractive as well.

I have done some hiring. In fact, when I was in outside sales, my management, when I left the company, they said will you help us hire your replacement?

And it was so hard. I had like, I'm looking at their shoes just like that old adage, you know, what, what do their shoes look like? But I really believe as you. You know, you implied or said, you know, who do you hire? Who do you hire? Somebody that's passionate. Uh, do you have Trader Joe's where you are?

I love Trader Joe's.

I must say I'm a little obsessed.

I'm obsessed too. What are the employees like? They are so fabulous. Mm-hmm. And I really believe that if you train someone who has the traits that you were just describing that you had, then I'm sorry, I think I said train, but if you hire someone like that, you can train them.

But if you hire somebody that you just think, oh, well, we'll train them into having that attitude. Very difficult. And something like Trader Joe's, other companies, it's just really obvious that people have that kind of passion and you need to find those people. So let's talk about, you know, what happened from that point.

You were a sales you said you started out as an ae, an account executive, right? Mm-hmm. And I did. And then you moved through that. So how did that happen and what, and what, what was it about you that helped you succeed?

Absolutely. So I have had a thousand different careers in my, in my career and tiny little pivots, and I think anyone who's really honest for the most part has, you look occasionally and find somebody who's worked at the same company for 30 years, but I imagine even within that same company, they've had different roles, different responsibilities, different, structures that they report into. Same was true of my career. So I decided after a year with WorldCom that it wasn't really my cup of tea. I am I love small, nimble, con con companies. I didn't know that at the time, but it felt just so, so huge and so. Politics and there was a right way to do everything and it was already defined.

And I know from my life that I liked to do the path I take, the pathless chosen. I don't usually take the easy path. I follow my gut and my instinct and kind of go where the wind takes me in a lot of cases. And so my then boyfriend, now husband and I. Packed up a U-Haul and drove out to Colorado without jobs, without knowing anybody because we had this dream that we wanted to live in Boulder, Colorado.

So we decided to pursue that. That also meant that we moved out here without income, which neither of our families was incredibly happy with. And we weren't married at the time, so we, we were a little bit of the black sheep of the family at the time. We moved out here and, and I took whatever job I could find, quite honestly, so I had a year's experience.

To date myself, nine 11 happened right after we moved here, which meant that everyone went into a hiring freeze and nobody knew what was going to, but the new normal was gonna be. Um, I went to the mall and walked in and got a job at Eddie Bauer As a sales associate, I figured I could sell one thing, I could sell anything.

I had never been in retail in my life. Um, but I knew. How to talk to people, so I wasn't scared to do that. Within a month, they asked me if I would interview to be a manager, and so I was quickly promoted to store manager. And spent a couple of years in retail and I think that really helped me from a consumer perspective.

It helped me understand the buying process from the prospect rather than from the seller's perspective, because I. First of all, I had a million at bats because people are constantly walking into a store. You're constantly having the same conversation. You get to try things on quickly, meaning you get to to test out messaging, see what's impactful, see what the reaction is.

I think that really helped me both think on my feet as well as fine tune things quickly. And just managing, a young staff who turned over very rapidly, who would not show up for work, who were not. Necessarily intrinsically motivated in the same way that you are in a professional environment was really a, an interesting experience for me in both leadership as well as in me just kind of establishing what does being a leader mean and is this something that I wanna pursue in my career?

So I did that for several years. Again. The wind blew us. We went to St. Thomas. We picked up, we sold everything we owned. Moved to St. Thomas for a year. Uh, I worked on the, uh, cruise ship docks in a high-end jewelry store. My husband had a job there and we spent the year snorkeling and experiencing islands life.

All those things that you can do before you. Before you have kids. So that was, that was kind of my entry. Uh, we ended up coming back to Colorado and I looked around and said, I don't ever wanna leave here again. The islands had taught me that the grass is not greener or the ocean's not bluer. I'm a mountain girl and I really love the mountains, and living on an island was a little too isolating for me.

There weren't a lot of opportunities and it was a, a difficult environment to live in. So when it came back here, I said, I'm gonna figure out how to have a career where I can stay just here. And that's when I started exploring SaaS and technology.

You are quite the adventurer, and I think being open to all those adventures has worked in your favor for sure.

And taking risks. Uh, I, I think the retail aspect is, is really important. I'm, I've had retail in my background too, outta college. Mm-hmm. I couldn't find a job, so that's where I went. And your comment about understanding the buyer and how many. Times, do you go into a clothing department or something and say, you know, are you looking for something?

Can I help you? Uh, you know, instead of asking and finding out, you know, the things that they might not even know about, what will serve them the best. So sales is, and. Business and life is all about understanding that person. So what a great exercise. I think for you listening, even when you go to a retailer and you are being sold to listen to how they're talking with you.

It's a great education, usually unfortunately, about what not to do. But then, yes, there are people like you that, that do that. Um, but no, my favorite,

favorite pet peeve was, would you like a receipt with you or in the bag? What a waste of a last impression. That's a good point. So what would be a better way to say that?

What could we have done to make your shopping experience better? Would, are you willing to recommend coming into, to some somebody else that, you know, just anything to get the conversation started to get them to open up with you or at le At least leave them with a great lasting impression when you go to Chick-fil-A.

They say it was our pleasure to serve you. Just something that feels special to you, um, that makes you go, oh, I was appreciated this experience that they, they appreciate me stopping in and purchasing something. Transactional is, do you want your receipt? Right,

exactly. And there's a saying that I've noticed that is fairly new and that I hear a lot and that I just love, and that is people say, I appreciate you.

Instead of saying thank you or I appreciate it, it's, I appreciate you. Mm-hmm. And I tell you, that's a warm fuzzy for me. So that's a really good point about what is the lasting impression. Just say, you know, thanks for coming in, or whatever, or, receipt in the bag is the worst. But yeah, those little nuances really do make a difference.

We're humans. We, we wanna relate. And especially with of course, ai, all those little, little keys are important. So as you changed we'll say chapters, you moved from chapter to chapter, how did that impact your personal brand and especially what advice do you have for women who are making or want to make really bold career moves?

Really good questions. I must admit, early in my career, I didn't think about having a personal brand in the same way that I do today. It was. It was not a subject of much conversation. Not only that, but it was often looked at as a detractor from the organizations that you worked with to draw personal attention when you are an employee.

And I think that has really changed. I think it's a change that employers have gone about kicking and screaming. They haven't loved it. A very necessary change as we've evolved, as there's become less security. As the market has changed drastically over the last 25 years. So I think that that's something to note.

But I always did think about my personal brand in the sense of I wanna lead with my values. I want to show up in a way that represents who I am at my core that I would be proud to have somebody telling somebody else about. So that's how I always thought about my personal brand. Things I thought about.

I never wanna leave an employer on bad terms. I always wanna end respectfully giving my notice. I saw a lot of people make that mistake, especially in retail where I didn't show up one day and the world is increasingly smaller and smaller, and those things usually do come around at some point in time.

Um, so that's, that's one leading with integrity and honesty. And, you know, if I can't do something, I'm gonna say I can't do it. Or if I missed a deadline, I'm gonna own it. So those are the things that I thought about in my personal brand and just, representing my core values in a positive light in a way that I would be happy to have other people talking about me.

That has evolved obviously since then. Especially now owning my own business. That's a very different, but it did start, the seed was planted, back when I graduated, even when I was dancing professionally before you know, going through college about how I show up in the world and how I treat others.

I'm very passionate about the concept of a personal brand. Our latest book I co-wrote with Steve is called UNC Copyable You. Mm-hmm. And it's how to get people to know, like, and trust you. And then we add something that's so important. It's critical. And that's to remember you when you're working for a company.

And I've worked for companies, of course, you have to represent their brand. Mm-hmm. But you might be selling the same thing as. Everyone else and your competition is selling something, uh, that's very similar to what you're selling. So your personal brand is really what sets you apart. I love the saying that your personal brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room.

And you just alluded to that. What do people think when they think of Shannon Plum Because mm-hmm. It's, it's. You know that human to human, again, you leading with integrity, doing things that seem like they're common sense, like calling people back and being trustworthy and not saying, oh yeah, this order will be here in time when it really won't.

Those are critical and that is up to you as an individual to manage, to be intentional about your personal brand. And as you said, it can evolve. It can evolve. Now, the integrity, your values, those will not change. But the things that maybe set you apart, like you have this incredible background as a ballerina.

First thing I asked you was, what was that like? What, how are your feet? Because I have a son is a ballerina, something like that. No one can copy that. No one can copy your story, how you did these adventures. So I think your personal brand point is great. I just have to throw in something about the athlete.

I was not an athlete. I played the French horn. I was a bander, but our daughter was a golfer and she golfed all the way through college. She had a scholarship. Wow. And employer, she ended up working for Callaway, which is a golf. The company. Mm-hmm. But I, there was a whole organization that helped employers connect with athletes because that absolutely tells you something about them.

Like you, the determination, the commitment that, you know, the hardships that you had to go through. I think that's great. And you know, if you're, if you weren't an athlete like me, you know. You know, I was always picked last for every team. Don't get K on your team. But, uh, you know, I had other things that I did very, very well including the French horn.

That also takes commitment, but I like your point Absolutely about. Being an athlete and I, yeah, I stuck with French horn all the way through college. I marched in the fricking marching band

and I, uh, no, that's amazing. I consider that a team sport because you have to be in unison, you have to support each other.

You have to listen to the Yeah. Other instruments. Playing in the queues in the conductor, like that is very much a team sport in my mind. So I wouldn't discount that. I, I would count that.

I love that. Thank you. And something I hadn't thought about in years is that when I marched through the mud in the field one time, I literally lost my shoe.

So it's cold and it's raining, and I'm marching with one shoe. So yes. Think of your background, you listening. What do you have in your background that can represent the qualities that. Shannon and I are talking about because that being uncapable is not, you know, your product and service, it never is. It's about you, your personal brand, what you represent to your customer.

I wanna ask you something we also mentioned beforehand, I have some opinions and I know you do too. Uh, what separates leaders who actually do the sales for you, uh, versus those who lead, lead with authenticity. Uh, why don't you explain your philosophy on that?

Absolutely. So it's very different a doer versus an enabler or a, a coach.

You'll see oftentimes that organizations will fire, their first sales hire, hire will be called a player coach. And the expectation in that case is that they're doing and leading. And I think that's such a slippery slope because by doing, you are innately in competition with the rest of the team. And being a competitive person as most salespeople and probably sales leaders, I would assume are, I know I am myself.

Having the fact that you are actually competing for opportunities and trying to be supporting a team. Those are in conflict just by definition. And so I like to think of, um, a, a, a doer as somebody who is out there who is executing and a leader is somebody who. The vision, who can help remove obstacles, who can help you see around corners that you haven't thought about how, who can layer on and help you get a voice in those meetings?

When somebody's not paying attention, they're really enabling you. Their whole job is. To support you, to help you understand where you're going as part of that company. And if you are not on the same path the company is to help you understand what your personal goals are and help you get there, whether it's in the company or elsewhere.

And I think that's a really important aspect. The best leaders that I have ever worked with and how I think about leadership is. You really care about the person, and it doesn't matter if that person's a good fit here or somewhere else, and you'll talk with people that I've worked with over my career.

We stay in touch. I'm helping them long after I've worked with them at that company because I think a true leader cares about them as a person and wants to help them achieve their goals wherever those might be.

I agree. And before we talked, I mentioned just a little thing that happened, an interaction.

It was an HVAC company. They actually asked me to be in their little photo shoot. Very, very, uh, casual, low key. But I got some insight into how their sales process worked, and the salesperson was talking about a deal that she lost and the sales manager. Said, oh, well I ended up closing that deal. And she said, well, how did you close 'em?

And he said, oh, I gave him a 10% discount. How the heck do you think that salesperson felt? Yeah, that's just the opposite of what you're describing. And so some of these things I always think, you know, common sense isn't always common. Some of these things might seem obvious, but it's really worth paying attention to the things that Shannon is bringing up.

Uh, this is part of your team, don't compete with your team. Sales leaders usually come from sales. You're right, we are competitive, but I feel like good leaders create other leaders, not followers. So, really it's so much about how your cust, you know, your employees, not just your employees, but your, you know, they're on the front line for your customers.

So let's switch and talk about what you're doing now. You started Pearl Advisors, you've got this Authentic Leader Revolution faith. Based on authenticity, which mm-hmm. Is critical. And of course we've got AI that everybody is thinking about. And so authenticity is such an opportunity to stand out, be uncapable.

So talk about what you are doing with your current job, your, your company, I should say. Your company and the movement that you're creating.

Absolutely. So it's interesting, when I left corporate I myself was a little bit lost and I knew that the, um, the title that I held, which coming out of tech was Chief Revenue Officer.

And that was again, my identity. That's how I was presented the world. But when I stepped back and really took a moment. To think about what had made me successful, what my unique skills were, and what made me UNC Copyable is exactly what you said, Kay, which is me, right? What I brought to the table, how I showed up, how I took care of customers and prospects, how I led teams.

That's what made me UNC Copyable. It wasn't some playbook that anyone could, steal and try to run. It was my own uniqueness and I always like to think of sales and I think really just life is an art and a science, right? There are certain foundations and ways to do things, but then there's like what you do that makes it special.

There's that, you know, color that you paint that nobody else would've thought of. And that's very much what I think is missing. You hit the nail on the head. AI is prevalent. We're all torn to try to figure out what's real and what's fake. Is this common on LinkedIn somebody, or is it somebody just trying to get my attention through a bot?

Bot trying to get my attention. Right. And so I think now is the time as you mentioned, to lean into authenticity. So really the authentic, authentic leadership movement is about helping people harness what makes them unique and being confident enough. Feeling like they have a voice to not try to feel like they have to copy everybody, but to stand on their own, to speak their own truth, to um, really listen to their instinct.

And I, I believe that up to this point, we've trained people to stop listening to that. We've trained them to follow status quo. We've trained them to follow a playbook. And because of the environments. In a lot of companies and organizations have gotten more and more complex with, um, layoffs with politics that toxicity has grown.

You know, it, it definitely has changed over the last 25 years, and that has caused people to lose. Faith and trust in themselves. They've lost that like touch base with their, um, gut to understand what feels right, what isn't right. A lot of people I see are doing things because it feels like something they should do.

They're posting on LinkedIn 'cause that's what everyone else is doing. They're saying something this way 'cause that's how everyone else does it. And I believe that what is going to set humans apart from eight. AI is the ability to think beyond that, to trust our instincts, to read the room, to truly connect human to human and use that to our advantage.

And so what I'm doing is I'm working with leaders executive leaders who are recovering from a toxic environment in some way, or trying to navigate their way through that help them reclaim themselves. And by that I mean their instincts. Their values aligning with where they want to be, if it's different from where they are now.

And you see this play out a lot in burnout. People changing jobs incredibly often. More and more people leaving corporate to start their own companies. People having to totally step back and quit sales because they don't feel as a woman that there's a place for them to balance having a family and running a team.

Those are just some examples. But I think that it's a. Shift that we need to make, uh, sooner rather than later, and that people are absolutely being hurt personally, physically, and mentally because of the expectations for them to be something else.

Before we get into the Authentic Leader Revolution, I wanna give you a chance to tell people where they can learn more and get involved with you.

Do you have any specific things? I think, okay, so we talk, we think we take a deep dive, we learn about ourselves. What's important? Personally, I like the idea of having a branding promise and telling your customer what it is. Don't let them figure it out. So do you have some way of not only being authentic, but communicating that to your prospect or customer to, you know, it could be simple or complex, but what, for the people listening, what is something that they can do or say?

Absolutely.

So I actually have a methodology that I work with clients on that might be really helpful here, and this is a way to cut through the confusion and decide what's right for you. So as I know that we all get to a point where we're like, huh, I'm hearing this, but I'm feeling this. How do I decide what's right?

Is this a red flag? Or is this a growth opportunity? It's just making me uncomfortable because it's something I haven't done before. And the acronym that I have assigned to that is proven, P-R-O-V-E-N. Um, and Kay, if you think it's helpful, I'm happy to walk through what those steps are. 'cause I do think it's a very right and way to do,

we have to do it quickly, but I'd love to hear what that is.

Yes. Okay.

Yeah.

So pattern. It's the first one, the p is it getting better or worse? So quick gut check, is this on the path up or is this on the path down? The second is respect. Are my boundaries being respected? Is this something that is going outside of what I personally want? O is orientation. So this is is it being honored or bulldozed?

This is something that's respecting me or totally ignoring me. Um, vitality is V so making something that feels. Good for you? Or is it making you feel really depressed? Obviously really important. E is empowerment. So is this, are you choosing this or is this something you've been trapped into and you feel like you don't have another way out?

And then the last is Ed. So this is nourishment. Is this building you up or breaking you down? And I think if you can quickly go through those gut texts and those layers, that's a really nice way for you to uncover is this something that aligns or doesn't align with how I want to move forward?

It really pays off.

Is that quick enough? Yeah, that is really, it's great. And proven is the acronym. Pro acronyms are always helpful. Yeah, and I think that, and I've been, I've been guilty of this just kind of going through the motions and not really spending the time to think about this and, and the points that you. Uh, brought up in that proven acronym and, uh, methodology.

So, uh, to close this out, you know, how can people get ahold of you, work with you, uh, find out about becoming part of the Authentic Leader Revolution? I love that term. Revolution is always really powerful. So what would you recommend as a next step?

Absolutely, you can find me on LinkedIn. Incredibly active there and I share so much tactical and strategic advice and I'm posting almost on a daily basis.

So please follow me there. You can also check out Pearl Advisors, and that's PURL advisors.com. Um, and that is my website with all my contact information, but I'd love to connect with you and if you have anything that I can help you with, please don't hesitate to reach out.

I will put those links in the show notes.

Do you wanna, what is, do you know what your LinkedIn handle or whatever is? It's Shannon Plum, all one word. Wow, that's good. You must have gotten in early. I got it early to have that, Shannon. I got really early, so that's easy to find and check her out on LinkedIn. I'm sure you're willing to connect and also absolutely.

Go to Shannon's website to learn more. Shannon, this has been a fascinating conversation. You are unique and uncapable and you that really comes through in how you represent yourself. So I just wanna end by saying thank you so much for being on the show.

Thank you so much for having me. Kay. I really enjoyed our conversation.

Wow. That went quick.

It did.

I was like, oh my goodness. We're done already. That's crazy. Yeah, absolutely. So I, I'm okay. We'll just start. I am back with Shannon Plum, CEO of Pearl Advisors, and that is PURL advisors. And, uh, I really encourage you to listen to our full episode because we talked about leadership, authenticity, uh, you know. Personal branding, all kinds of things that you can use as a listener to excel and to be more successful in a way that is the real you.

So listen to that full episode right now. We're gonna shift into our bonus fun fact round, which, uh, has, as I told Shannon just now, has really become popular because it gives you a little insight to who Shannon is behind the scenes. So the first question I have is, what did you wanna be when you grew up?

An astronaut. I even went as far as going to space camp, which was one of the most exciting experiences of my childhood.

That's a great, uh, very lofty goal in more ways than one.

But the best thing is I'm not good at science or math, so that did not obviously

pan out. And I have to say that through our daughter, who she's now 33 through the years when she was growing up, Steve, my husband traveled a lot.

He was speaker and they would do daddy daughter trips when he was home. Mm-hmm. Some really cool ones. And they went to space camp. That

and I love that. Have a

little outfit. She was probably eight or 10 and it was just amazing. I'm sure that you loved that, that, you know, I did what a cool experience. Um, but yeah, the science and math thing, uh, that's probably can't that perform.

So, um, the second thing is, what is something that you wanna do but you haven't done yet?

I want to circumvent the world. I wanna travel around the world, so I want to hire a private plane. I wanna go from place to place and hop around the world. I absolutely love adventure and there's so many things I wanna experience and see, but don't wanna see the curated, perfect version of things.

I wanna see the real city, the eat the real food on the street, um, and experience that in a very real way.

Well, wonderful and adventurous goal, which fits with your personality. So I think you're gonna do that. Uh, what is something that you particularly like about yourself?

I am I am, I see things through, if I say I am going to do something, I absolutely deliver it.

However, it also pairs with the thing I don't like about myself, which I think is your next question. This is my next question. I tend to procrastinate, so like I do things, but I kind of do on my time, which I remember growing up used to drive my parents batty. They would ask me to do something and I would do it, but it was just kind of when I felt like doing it, not when they wanted it done.

So I'm constantly battling against that desire to procrastinate with the, I know I committed to this and I'm gonna do it

no matter what. I'm a procrastinator too, and I have heard and read that this is also related to perfectionism, which I feel like that is one of my problems. I'm putting something together.

Oh, it's not quite right. It's not quite right. When good enough is better than not doing it at all. So absolutely, I can relate. And I think that you are probably in that position too. So let's end up, you're a world traveler already. You've got these aspirations to do more. Let's ask, uh, let's talk about what is your favorite vacation spot so far?

So the favorite place I've been is probably, um, Portofino in Italy, in

Italy.

I love Italy. However, I have such good memories from Cavo St. Lucas because we've been going there with my kids since they were really little, and so it just feels like a second home to us because we've taken that vacation so many times and they've grown up there.

So from a sentimental standpoint, that would be my favorite.

That's a good one. That's a good one. And, and I have had, you know, various answers and one of them that's somewhat consistent is that family vacation spot because of not maybe the place, although I'm sure the place is wonderful, but more about that emotional connection.

So yes, I applaud that it's your favorite vacation spot, and we're gonna end there. And again, I want to encourage you listening to listen to our full episode. You'll be glad you did. Shannon Plum, CEO of Pearl Advisors. Thanks once again for being on the show.

My pleasure. Thank you for having me. Kay.

Okay, we're done.

Amazing. Well, that was painless. Was it painless? I, it was. I, um, I think it was really good. I really liked it. Great. And I wasn't quite sure how this was gonna go because it's not quite as clear or clean, clear cut as some, so, and we didn't really get, I guess, into how you help your. Customers as much.

I think it will come through what you've just talked about is what you help them with. So, anyway, so hopefully people will explore what you, what, you know, your website and this, how do you find the authentic leadership or leader revolution? That's what I had a little trouble finding.

Yeah, it's more just the tagline, honestly.

Kay. And kind of enabling one person at a time to find their own authenticity and join the people who are not trying to be like everybody else and not following the playbook.

I like that. I love the fact that you said you don't like playbooks. I don't. It's funny. I just worked with a customer to build a playbook, so, oh, we won't talk about that.

The number of times I've built them and I, they've, no one's ever looked at them, and I've spent hours on building this playbook, and it was more of an exercise for me as a leader to get clear on the process than it was something that anyone would ever use.

I have to agree. I went into depth to make this playbook and I, I really made an effort to include everybody on the team to in, give input.

Mm-hmm. So it would be something that represents them, but where is it? I don't know. It's not on their website, which is where it was supposed to go. Yeah.

Yeah. And it feels like a lot of work for not a lot of output. Right? Or a lot of results. Impact maybe is what I'm looking

for. Yeah, the pay is good, but the satisfaction isn't quite as good if you wanna affect lives.

So, so is there anything else before we say goodbye? Um, are you gonna be there? I don't think so. Friday. In the morning.

Yes, yes. I'll, I will be there. I've got it on my calendar. So yes, I will see you then.

Good. That sounds great. Thank you. Yes, Shannon, have a wonderful rest of your day. Appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

And, uh, I'll let you know, my assistant will let you know, uh, when this episode's gonna come out, probably in two to three weeks. Okay. And then whatever you would be willing to do to promote it. Of course, of course. Promote yourself and we will do that too. Be

awesome. That sounds amazing. Thank you so much.

Okay. Thank you. Nice to meet you, Shannon.

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